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Fascinating that the battery of the original was the biggest until the 4 landed - it speaks for the power optimisation that they pursued for those first 4 itera

by NamTaf 9y ago

Fascinating that the battery of the original was the biggest until the 4 landed - it speaks for the power optimisation that they pursued for those first 4 iterations. Also amusing how it's literally a completely different purpose battery cobbled into a phone case to prove the concept before purpose-designed parts came into fruition.

leggomylibro 9y ago
Sometimes, you just gotta work with what you got. Like today. What is the ubiquitous Energy Unit? There are flat batteries out to like 2500mAh, but for most applications, it's gotta be the 18650 cell. And accordingly, ho-lee shit. 2600mAh is around what you can rely on a factory-fresh authorized 3.7V cell having. But let's look at Amazon. 3000mAh abound. 5800mAh and above are available as well! And ebay? 6,800-9,900Mah! Ten fucking amp-hours! 'Optimistic' is one word...'Advertising' is another. Lying.
- comstock 9y ago
  Yes, it would be interesting to see a graph of states versus actual capacity for the eBay batteries. I’d guess there would be an inverse correlation between stated and actual capacity.
  - ButchDriveshaft 9y ago
    Well, it turns out there is. Mooch has done some amazing testing and research in numerous form factors and chemistries. If you're interested you should check them out: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/ https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-b...
    - TrickyRick 9y ago
      Can someone explain to me what one would use 1800 mAh LiPOs for in an e-cigarrette? Or is it just a collection of battery tests unrelated to e-cigarettes?
      - comstock 9y ago
        For some reason they seem to be very interested in the peak current. I guess the higher the current the better you vaporize the material?
        ButchDriveshaft 9y ago
        Actually the most important figure is not just the peak current amp limit, but the actual continuous discharge amperage limit. While batteries are capable of higher peak discharge rates in very short bursts, you really do not want to push this and instead should stay below the continuous discharge amperage limit. The higher this limit generally the "safer" the battery performs in high drain operations like actually vaping the ecig, and this means that not only can you go to higher power levels, but that lower ones will also generally not heat the battery as much, and reduce the risk of thermal runaway or venting. Take a variable power mod using power regulation set at 50w (a relatively common power setting for enthusiast/higher end vapers but that can be a daily driver), with an atomizer at 0.18ohms resistance and a Sony VTC5 18650 as the battery with 2600mAh capacity and a sustained safe current amperage limit of 30A. To get 50w you will need to apply 3.00V / 0.18ohms or 16.67 amps. If you for instance choose a poor battery re-wrap, like this Cylaid 3500mAh advertised at 10amp continuous discharge, which is actually just a "re-wrapped" battery which can only sustain 8 amps, you would be in dangerous territory where the battery would likely get much hotter than a quality one and have higher potential for thermal runaway/venting. https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/cylaid-10a-3500mah-18650-bench-test-results-a-rewrapped-8a-battery.801091/ https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/cylaid-10a-3... The most interesting thing you'll notice is an inverse relationship with capacity in mAh and continuous discharge in amperage. You can either have a higher capacity battery with lower continuous discharge current, or a lower capacity battery with higher continuous discharge current, not both.
        function_seven 9y ago
        On a regulated device, the coil resistance is irrelevant to battery amp draw. 50W will consume the same amount of current regardless of what it is being used for. The right way to figure it is 50W/3.7V = 13.5A. Add a bit more on that to account for regulator inefficiency. It also rises as the battery discharges down to cutoff voltage, which is usually 3.0 or 3.2V. This holds true even if the coil is 0.5Ω
- reportingsjr 9y ago
  The max you could get in an 18650 form factor right now is right around 3000mAh, but good luck actually getting them! It is pretty easy to get legit cells that are around 2600-2800mAh though. The ones that are advertised above that are 100% lies and are generally pretty crappy batteries.
kalleboo 9y ago
It always amused me how hobbyists and IIRC even some commercially released products reused Nokia phone batteries for projects that needed Li-ion simply due to their ubiquity

by NamTaf 9y ago

leggomylibro 9y ago

Sometimes, you just gotta work with what you got. Like today. What is the ubiquitous Energy Unit? There are flat batteries out to like 2500mAh, but for most applications, it's gotta be the 18650 cell. And accordingly, ho-lee shit. 2600mAh is around what you can rely on a factory-fresh authorized 3.7V cell having. But let's look at Amazon. 3000mAh abound. 5800mAh and above are available as well! And ebay? 6,800-9,900Mah! Ten fucking amp-hours! 'Optimistic' is one word...'Advertising' is another. Lying.

comstock 9y ago
Yes, it would be interesting to see a graph of states versus actual capacity for the eBay batteries. I’d guess there would be an inverse correlation between stated and actual capacity.
- ButchDriveshaft 9y ago
  Well, it turns out there is. Mooch has done some amazing testing and research in numerous form factors and chemistries. If you're interested you should check them out: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/ https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-b...
  - TrickyRick 9y ago
    Can someone explain to me what one would use 1800 mAh LiPOs for in an e-cigarrette? Or is it just a collection of battery tests unrelated to e-cigarettes?
    - comstock 9y ago
      For some reason they seem to be very interested in the peak current. I guess the higher the current the better you vaporize the material?
      - ButchDriveshaft 9y ago
        Actually the most important figure is not just the peak current amp limit, but the actual continuous discharge amperage limit. While batteries are capable of higher peak discharge rates in very short bursts, you really do not want to push this and instead should stay below the continuous discharge amperage limit. The higher this limit generally the "safer" the battery performs in high drain operations like actually vaping the ecig, and this means that not only can you go to higher power levels, but that lower ones will also generally not heat the battery as much, and reduce the risk of thermal runaway or venting. Take a variable power mod using power regulation set at 50w (a relatively common power setting for enthusiast/higher end vapers but that can be a daily driver), with an atomizer at 0.18ohms resistance and a Sony VTC5 18650 as the battery with 2600mAh capacity and a sustained safe current amperage limit of 30A. To get 50w you will need to apply 3.00V / 0.18ohms or 16.67 amps. If you for instance choose a poor battery re-wrap, like this Cylaid 3500mAh advertised at 10amp continuous discharge, which is actually just a "re-wrapped" battery which can only sustain 8 amps, you would be in dangerous territory where the battery would likely get much hotter than a quality one and have higher potential for thermal runaway/venting. https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/cylaid-10a-3500mah-18650-bench-test-results-a-rewrapped-8a-battery.801091/ https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/cylaid-10a-3... The most interesting thing you'll notice is an inverse relationship with capacity in mAh and continuous discharge in amperage. You can either have a higher capacity battery with lower continuous discharge current, or a lower capacity battery with higher continuous discharge current, not both.
        function_seven 9y ago
        On a regulated device, the coil resistance is irrelevant to battery amp draw. 50W will consume the same amount of current regardless of what it is being used for. The right way to figure it is 50W/3.7V = 13.5A. Add a bit more on that to account for regulator inefficiency. It also rises as the battery discharges down to cutoff voltage, which is usually 3.0 or 3.2V. This holds true even if the coil is 0.5Ω
reportingsjr 9y ago
The max you could get in an 18650 form factor right now is right around 3000mAh, but good luck actually getting them! It is pretty easy to get legit cells that are around 2600-2800mAh though. The ones that are advertised above that are 100% lies and are generally pretty crappy batteries.

kalleboo 9y ago

It always amused me how hobbyists and IIRC even some commercially released products reused Nokia phone batteries for projects that needed Li-ion simply due to their ubiquity