6 ms·

Interesting, as a candidate I prefer the take home project because then I don't have to cram largely irrelevant knowledge.

intended 9y ago
Well apparently you have expendable weekends :)
- pc86 9y ago
  So do you - it's just that your priorities are different. Which is totally fine, but let's not pretend there is a class of people who cannot possibly take 2-3 hours out of the next 48 to do something. With rare exception, they're just making the (completely reasonable, completely okay) choice not to. I am obviously only referring to programmers, knowledge workers etc.
  - intended 9y ago
    Hah. that sounds like my dad telling me I should get more out of my day! yes it’s entirely possible to be at a stage where you can’t pull more hours out of your sleep or other obligations to fulfill X task you truly want to. I really have a lot invested in believing it. Could you burn the candle at both ends ? Sure! But I the case that you already are, what more can you do? If you are a knowledge worker - and on HN, perhaps you do have the spare time. But if you are older - Do you need to take care of your family? Help around the house, sleep? Maybe not! But usually the older you are, the more likely it is that you don’t have those hours lying around to just burn a weekend at your convenience. Which supports the idea that this is going to be a request (take home exercises) that will favor one type of person. The person with the freedom to burn that time.
- on_and_off 9y ago
  Really ? A very competent friend had to cram for months in order to pass the whiteboard interviews at one of the tech giants. I had to spend a Saturday on this test (it was scoped to be a 6 hours project, I spent the day on it with frequent and long pauses). My time investment is orders of magnitude lower what it would have been for a whiteboard.
pmiller2 9y ago
I do, too, when it's a substitute for on the spot grilling. I think the idea in the example is that is a massively over scoped project.
- Chyzwar 9y ago
  A distributed database is ok as long you can assume reliable network and no partitions :P I do think that "homework" interview problems are better than pointless algo.
  - carlmr 9y ago
    Homework problems should be doable in the same time, just at home. If you present your results afterwards they can also be good to judge presentation skills.
  - richardknop 9y ago
    Distributed database seems like a quite complex project. Let's say I could do a minimal version of etcd using raft or paxos over the weekend but it would probably take most of my weekend's time, I think 10-20 hours work at least. That is not reasonable as a home work for job interview. Something which takes 2-3 hours is much more reasonable and I am willing to do that because it leaves me with enough time for family / life over the weekend or to do homework for few different companies to not put all my eggs into single basket when interviewing. If you are looking for a job you would rarely only concentrate on one opportunity. For sure you would try to compare at least 2-3 comparable jobs to choose the one which fits you best. So these sort of tests / home work assignments should be quite simple, probably algorithmic questions which can be completed in 50-100 lines of code.
    - KekDemaga 9y ago
      I think it depends on the applicant, I'm willing to do such a project but the prices I will demand if hired will be markedly higher than a firm that offered me a simpler project that consumed less time. The way I see it is you have limited the risk you have undertaken in hiring me thus I can see more of the fruits of my labor.
baq 9y ago
Have 3 kids. Take home interviews won't be happening for a while in my case.
rdtsc 9y ago
There is nothing wrong with that as long as you're aware of what that selection does. Just like the topic at hand, that kind of requirement is correlated with other characteristics, think young, fresh grad, not married probably, no kids, really wants the job, maybe a bit desperate, doesn't mind expending their free time etc. In some cases the companies are aware of what they are doing. They know it is not about the take-home test but about picking those types of candidates most of all, and they are ok not selecting the rest. This was my friend's company. In other cases, companies are not aware of it, they just copy what others are doing or say believe that this testing method is better, so use it strictly for that reason. Which is fine too, it might work for them better. However, they'll still end up selecting certain candidates and not others, but they just don't do it explicitly.
- on_and_off 9y ago
  Last interview I had contained a take home test, it was for a senior position. The test was designed to be a 6 hours task. I spent a Saturday on it (with regular pauses to go out a bit, play games, watch tv, etc) I got the job. I have started there very recently so I can't really speak about the amount of work / week in that place. Again, compared to a very skilled friend who had to cram for 2 hours each evening for a couple of months (and speaking with other people I know having gone through that, it seems pretty standard), I really see my time investment as ridiculously less than an on-site whiteboard.

intended 9y ago

Well apparently you have expendable weekends :)

pc86 9y ago
So do you - it's just that your priorities are different. Which is totally fine, but let's not pretend there is a class of people who cannot possibly take 2-3 hours out of the next 48 to do something. With rare exception, they're just making the (completely reasonable, completely okay) choice not to. I am obviously only referring to programmers, knowledge workers etc.
- intended 9y ago
  Hah. that sounds like my dad telling me I should get more out of my day! yes it’s entirely possible to be at a stage where you can’t pull more hours out of your sleep or other obligations to fulfill X task you truly want to. I really have a lot invested in believing it. Could you burn the candle at both ends ? Sure! But I the case that you already are, what more can you do? If you are a knowledge worker - and on HN, perhaps you do have the spare time. But if you are older - Do you need to take care of your family? Help around the house, sleep? Maybe not! But usually the older you are, the more likely it is that you don’t have those hours lying around to just burn a weekend at your convenience. Which supports the idea that this is going to be a request (take home exercises) that will favor one type of person. The person with the freedom to burn that time.
on_and_off 9y ago
Really ? A very competent friend had to cram for months in order to pass the whiteboard interviews at one of the tech giants. I had to spend a Saturday on this test (it was scoped to be a 6 hours project, I spent the day on it with frequent and long pauses). My time investment is orders of magnitude lower what it would have been for a whiteboard.

pmiller2 9y ago

I do, too, when it's a substitute for on the spot grilling. I think the idea in the example is that is a massively over scoped project.

Chyzwar 9y ago
A distributed database is ok as long you can assume reliable network and no partitions :P I do think that "homework" interview problems are better than pointless algo.
- carlmr 9y ago
  Homework problems should be doable in the same time, just at home. If you present your results afterwards they can also be good to judge presentation skills.
- richardknop 9y ago
  Distributed database seems like a quite complex project. Let's say I could do a minimal version of etcd using raft or paxos over the weekend but it would probably take most of my weekend's time, I think 10-20 hours work at least. That is not reasonable as a home work for job interview. Something which takes 2-3 hours is much more reasonable and I am willing to do that because it leaves me with enough time for family / life over the weekend or to do homework for few different companies to not put all my eggs into single basket when interviewing. If you are looking for a job you would rarely only concentrate on one opportunity. For sure you would try to compare at least 2-3 comparable jobs to choose the one which fits you best. So these sort of tests / home work assignments should be quite simple, probably algorithmic questions which can be completed in 50-100 lines of code.
  - KekDemaga 9y ago
    I think it depends on the applicant, I'm willing to do such a project but the prices I will demand if hired will be markedly higher than a firm that offered me a simpler project that consumed less time. The way I see it is you have limited the risk you have undertaken in hiring me thus I can see more of the fruits of my labor.

baq 9y ago

Have 3 kids. Take home interviews won't be happening for a while in my case.

rdtsc 9y ago

There is nothing wrong with that as long as you're aware of what that selection does. Just like the topic at hand, that kind of requirement is correlated with other characteristics, think young, fresh grad, not married probably, no kids, really wants the job, maybe a bit desperate, doesn't mind expending their free time etc. In some cases the companies are aware of what they are doing. They know it is not about the take-home test but about picking those types of candidates most of all, and they are ok not selecting the rest. This was my friend's company. In other cases, companies are not aware of it, they just copy what others are doing or say believe that this testing method is better, so use it strictly for that reason. Which is fine too, it might work for them better. However, they'll still end up selecting certain candidates and not others, but they just don't do it explicitly.

on_and_off 9y ago
Last interview I had contained a take home test, it was for a senior position. The test was designed to be a 6 hours task. I spent a Saturday on it (with regular pauses to go out a bit, play games, watch tv, etc) I got the job. I have started there very recently so I can't really speak about the amount of work / week in that place. Again, compared to a very skilled friend who had to cram for 2 hours each evening for a couple of months (and speaking with other people I know having gone through that, it seems pretty standard), I really see my time investment as ridiculously less than an on-site whiteboard.