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> When you truly accept that we today are not smarter nor necessarily more 'enlightened' than the people that came before us We're not necessarily smarter (nat

by vacri 9y ago

> When you truly accept that we today are not smarter nor necessarily more 'enlightened' than the people that came before us We're not necessarily smarter (native intellect) but we are a shitload more enlightened (educated, experienced). In Plato's time, only the absolute social elite could converse in this manner, whereas now we have much broader and deeper knowledge available (and discussed) on pretty much every aspect of life that is common between our times. Don't fall into the trap of deifying past thinkers; they were humans too. Yes, we can learn lessons from them, but our populace as a whole is more enlightened than the populace as a whole in Plato's time. One simple example is egalitarianism; while not perfect now, Greek democracies were only democratic for elite men. Sucks to be you if you're a slave or a woman because... um... that's just the way it is? If you're going to be making theory, you should work from solid foundations - the ancient Greeks had some really wrong ideas about the role of the physical heart and brain of a human, and no-one today would talk about the left ventricle being the source of human heat, for example.

hnthrwawy566 9y ago
> they were humans too Yes they were. However I'll put more stock in the ideas that have survived and been promulgated throughout the ages than I would, for example, some poorly thought out perspective from some random guy on HN. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect > and no-one today would talk about the left ventricle being the source of human hea No one today would seriously suggest that a low-fat high-carb diet was healthy and yet that's exactly what was advocated by the medical profession up until about 5 years ago.
- vacri 9y ago
  Well, you're succumbing to survivorship bias there, because there were plenty of poorly thought-out perspectives from yesteryear that haven't survived. Claiming that the ancients were more enlightened than us moderns because a few of their ideas survived is simply not rational. And it's certainly stacking the deck to compare the apex thinker of antiquity to a non-apex thinker today.
  - hnthrwawy566 9y ago
    > survivorship bias This term is a meme to you and you don't actually understand it. Tell me, what is the meaning of 'survivorship bias' when we're talking about things which have lasted for significant periods of time, over many cycles? You keep arguing against a strawman. I never claimed that an idea is better just because it was held earlier.
    - vacri 9y ago
      > you don't actually understand it. Tell me, what is the meaning of 'survivorship bias' If I don't understand the term, then what's the point of getting me to explain it? Explain it yourself if you think I have it wrong. > Tell me, what is the meaning of 'survivorship bias' when we're talking about things which have lasted for significant periods of time, over many cycles? O_o My first comment was pointing out that the ancients believed in a lot of things that DIDN'T stand the test of time. If you're just limiting yourself to only those ideas which have survived and are making your conclusions from those, then you really are in no position to declare others ignorant of what survivorship bias means. > I never claimed that an idea is better just because it was held earlier. A strawman of your own, because I wasn't talking about individual ideas, but the concept that the ancients were more enlightened than today. I said in my original comment that some lessons come from them, but overall they weren't 'more enlightened'.

by vacri 9y ago

hnthrwawy566 9y ago

> they were humans too Yes they were. However I'll put more stock in the ideas that have survived and been promulgated throughout the ages than I would, for example, some poorly thought out perspective from some random guy on HN. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect > and no-one today would talk about the left ventricle being the source of human hea No one today would seriously suggest that a low-fat high-carb diet was healthy and yet that's exactly what was advocated by the medical profession up until about 5 years ago.

vacri 9y ago
Well, you're succumbing to survivorship bias there, because there were plenty of poorly thought-out perspectives from yesteryear that haven't survived. Claiming that the ancients were more enlightened than us moderns because a few of their ideas survived is simply not rational. And it's certainly stacking the deck to compare the apex thinker of antiquity to a non-apex thinker today.
- hnthrwawy566 9y ago
  > survivorship bias This term is a meme to you and you don't actually understand it. Tell me, what is the meaning of 'survivorship bias' when we're talking about things which have lasted for significant periods of time, over many cycles? You keep arguing against a strawman. I never claimed that an idea is better just because it was held earlier.
  - vacri 9y ago
    > you don't actually understand it. Tell me, what is the meaning of 'survivorship bias' If I don't understand the term, then what's the point of getting me to explain it? Explain it yourself if you think I have it wrong. > Tell me, what is the meaning of 'survivorship bias' when we're talking about things which have lasted for significant periods of time, over many cycles? O_o My first comment was pointing out that the ancients believed in a lot of things that DIDN'T stand the test of time. If you're just limiting yourself to only those ideas which have survived and are making your conclusions from those, then you really are in no position to declare others ignorant of what survivorship bias means. > I never claimed that an idea is better just because it was held earlier. A strawman of your own, because I wasn't talking about individual ideas, but the concept that the ancients were more enlightened than today. I said in my original comment that some lessons come from them, but overall they weren't 'more enlightened'.