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Response rates are just low in general for cold opportunities. Like, 5% sounds great. Either use your network or send out many more applications even to margina

Response rates are just low in general for cold opportunities. Like, 5% sounds great. Either use your network or send out many more applications even to marginal opportunities.

toomanybeersies 9y ago
Is it really that bad in the USA? I've just started looking for a new job this week, and I've applied for maybe 3 jobs, and my phone has been ringing off the hook.
- jldugger 9y ago
  It depends. If you figure that a company keeps a posting online until the candidate accepts an offer, the ratio of 'accepting applications' to 'we'll keep your resume around just in case' is like 2:1 -- 33 percent success rate. Which is where recruiters come in. Companies paying people to talk to and find candidates is a real signal that they'll consider your application, rather than trying to meet some H1-B requirement or whatever other possible reasons they have for including a job on a website. I've submitted like 26 applications, and gotten about 10 calls from humans. 3 of those calls were from recruiters who reached out to me first. There's also a stream of LinkedIn contacts who want to send me off to remote places for 3 month contracts for random 'Fortune 500 company', but if you're looking for a w2 employee gig with health insurance, relocation, and long term employment opportunity, these warm body shops are less helpful.
- brooklyn_ashey 9y ago
  Yes. Where are you applying from?
  - toomanybeersies 9y ago
    Australia. It helps that ruby developers are rare as hens teeth here.
brooklyn_ashey 9y ago
The problem with "using your network" for an older worker, is that in a severely ageist climate, your network has to be made up of those who are 10-20 years younger than you are. These kinds of connections across generations are difficult to forge in a way Dan Lyons illustrates better than I can. I have found that "network" as a resource is better explained as "knowing someone with CEO hiring power and strong desire to hire you in particular." If you are in your early to mid 40s, you may have built strong connections of this type, but many of those who are in powerful hiring positions don't want others around who can compete at their level, because they face the same thing comming for them. And many more who have this power these days are much younger than they used to be, which makes them less likely to hire someone they see as "mentor age". It feels awkward and unnatural--they want to hire those they can come up with, just like in any other time in history. I feel that this "get a job through your network" advice tends to become very thin at around age 35 and up, especially if you are a member of another protected class.

Response rates are just low in general for cold opportunities. Like, 5% sounds great. Either use your network or send out many more applications even to marginal opportunities.

toomanybeersies 9y ago

Is it really that bad in the USA? I've just started looking for a new job this week, and I've applied for maybe 3 jobs, and my phone has been ringing off the hook.

jldugger 9y ago
It depends. If you figure that a company keeps a posting online until the candidate accepts an offer, the ratio of 'accepting applications' to 'we'll keep your resume around just in case' is like 2:1 -- 33 percent success rate. Which is where recruiters come in. Companies paying people to talk to and find candidates is a real signal that they'll consider your application, rather than trying to meet some H1-B requirement or whatever other possible reasons they have for including a job on a website. I've submitted like 26 applications, and gotten about 10 calls from humans. 3 of those calls were from recruiters who reached out to me first. There's also a stream of LinkedIn contacts who want to send me off to remote places for 3 month contracts for random 'Fortune 500 company', but if you're looking for a w2 employee gig with health insurance, relocation, and long term employment opportunity, these warm body shops are less helpful.
brooklyn_ashey 9y ago
Yes. Where are you applying from?
- toomanybeersies 9y ago
  Australia. It helps that ruby developers are rare as hens teeth here.

brooklyn_ashey 9y ago

The problem with "using your network" for an older worker, is that in a severely ageist climate, your network has to be made up of those who are 10-20 years younger than you are. These kinds of connections across generations are difficult to forge in a way Dan Lyons illustrates better than I can. I have found that "network" as a resource is better explained as "knowing someone with CEO hiring power and strong desire to hire you in particular." If you are in your early to mid 40s, you may have built strong connections of this type, but many of those who are in powerful hiring positions don't want others around who can compete at their level, because they face the same thing comming for them. And many more who have this power these days are much younger than they used to be, which makes them less likely to hire someone they see as "mentor age". It feels awkward and unnatural--they want to hire those they can come up with, just like in any other time in history. I feel that this "get a job through your network" advice tends to become very thin at around age 35 and up, especially if you are a member of another protected class.