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Yeah, but there's no certificate. And, despite what everyone wants to believe, most employers still want that certificate or degree. They're not gonna accept "I

Yeah, but there's no certificate. And, despite what everyone wants to believe, most employers still want that certificate or degree. They're not gonna accept "I watched a bunch of videos on YouTube" as an alternative.

WalterBright 9y ago
In the programming biz, they often will if you've got a track record to back it up. Contributing to open source projects is a route to getting such a track record. If you already have a degree, just in the wrong field, you don't need to get another degree. Just get the training by whatever means. Heck, my degree is in mechanical engineering, yet I had jobs writing software.
- weirdstuff 9y ago
  In my own experience a track record is meaning less and less, and employers are really starting to fixate on credentials. It's very weird and disconcerting to a fellow like myself who likes to believe an impressive record should speak for itself. But apparently it's not speaking as loudly as it used to. There really is a "cult of the degree" and I really don't get it. Is the field getting saturated and employers are finding it necessary to erect barriers? Does this, an average, make good fiscal sense? I would think successful, relevant experience is something (that when verified) would reduce risk for businesses.
kamaal 9y ago
>>They're not gonna accept "I watched a bunch of videos on YouTube" as an alternative. Soon they will. If the internet people come at cheaper prices. There isn't much difference between people who watch a lecture on the internet vs those who watch it live.
- WalterBright 9y ago
  And I can rewind/pause yootoob if I missed something or need a little more time to understand it.
- netheril96 9y ago
  > If the internet people come at cheaper prices. But filtering out the good ones from the "internet people" is more expensive than seeking through college graduates.
j45 9y ago
A certificate is one thing. Expecting your education to make something of you, instead of making something of your education (track record) is another. Managing to get a certificate does not guarantee one can apply those YouTube videos.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  I never, ever once implied anything of the sort.
kbart 9y ago
Usually, as soon as you get through the first interview, your papers won't matter much. Credentials might help to get you that first interview, but getting a good engineering job still requires deep technical skills and that's where those, who "watch a bunch of youtube videos" can shine. I have my credentials written on CV, but never have been asked to show any of these papers or shown any interest in them.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  "Usually, as soon as you get through the first interview, your papers won't matter much" Unfortunately, getting that first interview can highly depend on those papers.
sulam 9y ago
No degree here, and when I was in college I was essentially an artist. No one has ever asked me about it in an interview. Instead I get asked how to solve problems, and maybe what problems I’ve solved in the past.
lkbm 9y ago
My company seems happy to hire qualified college dropouts. A college diploma is a signal that you've learned something, but to be honest, it's not a very strong signal. Some of our most talented engineers didn't graduate college, or didn't major in CS, and I know several CS majors who aren't very competent at all. (I might be one of them--I'd say I was when I first graduated. Big, mature bureaucracies want formal signals. Small/young businesses and startups care about competence. Google is very large, but I suspect still manages to act "young" in many respects.

WalterBright 9y ago

In the programming biz, they often will if you've got a track record to back it up. Contributing to open source projects is a route to getting such a track record. If you already have a degree, just in the wrong field, you don't need to get another degree. Just get the training by whatever means. Heck, my degree is in mechanical engineering, yet I had jobs writing software.

weirdstuff 9y ago
In my own experience a track record is meaning less and less, and employers are really starting to fixate on credentials. It's very weird and disconcerting to a fellow like myself who likes to believe an impressive record should speak for itself. But apparently it's not speaking as loudly as it used to. There really is a "cult of the degree" and I really don't get it. Is the field getting saturated and employers are finding it necessary to erect barriers? Does this, an average, make good fiscal sense? I would think successful, relevant experience is something (that when verified) would reduce risk for businesses.

kamaal 9y ago

>>They're not gonna accept "I watched a bunch of videos on YouTube" as an alternative. Soon they will. If the internet people come at cheaper prices. There isn't much difference between people who watch a lecture on the internet vs those who watch it live.

WalterBright 9y ago
And I can rewind/pause yootoob if I missed something or need a little more time to understand it.
netheril96 9y ago
> If the internet people come at cheaper prices. But filtering out the good ones from the "internet people" is more expensive than seeking through college graduates.

j45 9y ago

A certificate is one thing. Expecting your education to make something of you, instead of making something of your education (track record) is another. Managing to get a certificate does not guarantee one can apply those YouTube videos.

s73ver_ 9y ago
I never, ever once implied anything of the sort.

kbart 9y ago

Usually, as soon as you get through the first interview, your papers won't matter much. Credentials might help to get you that first interview, but getting a good engineering job still requires deep technical skills and that's where those, who "watch a bunch of youtube videos" can shine. I have my credentials written on CV, but never have been asked to show any of these papers or shown any interest in them.

s73ver_ 9y ago
"Usually, as soon as you get through the first interview, your papers won't matter much" Unfortunately, getting that first interview can highly depend on those papers.

sulam 9y ago

No degree here, and when I was in college I was essentially an artist. No one has ever asked me about it in an interview. Instead I get asked how to solve problems, and maybe what problems I’ve solved in the past.

lkbm 9y ago

My company seems happy to hire qualified college dropouts. A college diploma is a signal that you've learned something, but to be honest, it's not a very strong signal. Some of our most talented engineers didn't graduate college, or didn't major in CS, and I know several CS majors who aren't very competent at all. (I might be one of them--I'd say I was when I first graduated. Big, mature bureaucracies want formal signals. Small/young businesses and startups care about competence. Google is very large, but I suspect still manages to act "young" in many respects.