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I think this view is more problematic than the one you're critiquing... I don't think it's too unreasonable to assume more modern people (significantly more mo

I think this view is more problematic than the one you're critiquing... I don't think it's too unreasonable to assume more modern people (significantly more modern, even), are a bit more enlightened on some subjects. At least, we no longer consider things like slavery and sexism OK, yet ancient people did, which indicates some significant gaps in their philosophies and high influence from outside. > Have you considered that this "primitive" idea comes up over and over again among great thinkers and writers throughout human history because there's something to it? Well, there is something to it... it's often reflecting the natural order of things, or the Zeitgeist of that time. Generally, a great thinker does not transcend time and is somewhat locked into their time, in that only certain strains of thought seem to exist during a time period and others do not, which indicates that overall variety of thinking is just not very high, regardless of how much of a "great thinker" you are. This, of course, it true for our time as well. Very likely many things we believe today are heavily influenced by whatever is, in a sense, "fashionable". Some ideas are best left unstated. The age, or lack of thereof, won't really tell you how accurate or useful something is, you'll have to evaluate it on its own terms. I don't like terms like "primitive" because they don't mean anything on their own, but that's a different question.

leggomylibro 9y ago
On the other hand, we also live in a crazy extreme environment today compared to olde times. We have better sanitation and life expectancy, but also way more exposure to things like lead, diesel fumes, radiation, environmental pollutants magnified through the foodchain... I mean, how many Greek cities had nuclear landfill fires smoldering underneath them? Fewer than modern America. And how much mercury and DDT was in the fish they ate? How many pharmaceuticals in their runoff water?
- vacri 9y ago
  > I mean, how many Greek cities had nuclear landfill fires smoldering underneath them? Fewer than modern America. How many modern American cities have smouldering nuclear landfill fires under them?
  - leggomylibro 9y ago
    Only one that I know of, but that's still probably more than ancient Greece. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-do-you-put-out-a-subterranean-fire-in-a-mountain-of-trash/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-do-you-put-out-a-su... It's an interesting bit of trivia that St. Louis had one of the nation's first cyclotrons used for atomic research, but radiation is the gift that keeps on giving. We're more or less stuck with it now, though; too bad we aren't using more for energy. Why, my pops has stories of scrubbin' the hot room floor what'd raise your hairs...of course, that was back on the East coast. Grandpop always was fond of hands-on lessons. Well. Hands-on lessons, ignoring the IRS, and losing his company's license to produce radioactive material. Still, he considered it a win when he was still cogent because 'those boys at oak ridge saved him from the draft.' Can't argue with that. Or at least, I sure as hell can't, especially since my other grandpop served in the Pacific theater and was very quiet about the whole thing besides using certain, uh, racial epithets to his death. Let's all stop and appreciate the lack of serious global conflict around now, yeah?
hnthrwawy566 9y ago
> At least, we no longer consider things like slavery and sexism OK No one has ever thought sexism is OK just like no one has ever thought murder is OK. The term contains within it the implicit value judgement. So long as there is sexual dimorphism among humans there will be a fundamental nature to the relations between the sexes and gender roles. If you would like to keep your mind closed and not think about the possibility that what we have now is not necessarily in keeping with that nature, that is your prerogative.
- projektir 9y ago
  > No one has ever thought sexism is OK... They have. Aristotle: > "[T]he relation of male to female is by nature a relation of superior to inferior and ruler to ruled". This is exactly what sexism is. It's perceiving women as inferior to men. Why one does so is beside the point. If one finds justifications for being OK with sexism, such as sexism reflecting nature, that doesn't change the fact that they're OK with sexism. > just like no one has ever thought murder is OK. Murder is definitely very OK in the natural world, so if that's your sticking philosophy, it's pretty much a necessary requirement. > there will be a fundamental nature to the relations between the sexes and gender roles I already addressed that this is one of the limiting factors on "great thinkers" and why often their thought patterns are so similar: > Well, there is something to it... it's often reflecting the natural order of things... > If you would like to keep your mind closed and not think about the possibility that what we have now is not necessarily in keeping with that nature, that is your prerogative. Oh, I'm fully aware we're not fully keeping up with nature, and I consider that a very good thing.
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leggomylibro 9y ago

On the other hand, we also live in a crazy extreme environment today compared to olde times. We have better sanitation and life expectancy, but also way more exposure to things like lead, diesel fumes, radiation, environmental pollutants magnified through the foodchain... I mean, how many Greek cities had nuclear landfill fires smoldering underneath them? Fewer than modern America. And how much mercury and DDT was in the fish they ate? How many pharmaceuticals in their runoff water?

vacri 9y ago
> I mean, how many Greek cities had nuclear landfill fires smoldering underneath them? Fewer than modern America. How many modern American cities have smouldering nuclear landfill fires under them?
- leggomylibro 9y ago
  Only one that I know of, but that's still probably more than ancient Greece. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-do-you-put-out-a-subterranean-fire-in-a-mountain-of-trash/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-do-you-put-out-a-su... It's an interesting bit of trivia that St. Louis had one of the nation's first cyclotrons used for atomic research, but radiation is the gift that keeps on giving. We're more or less stuck with it now, though; too bad we aren't using more for energy. Why, my pops has stories of scrubbin' the hot room floor what'd raise your hairs...of course, that was back on the East coast. Grandpop always was fond of hands-on lessons. Well. Hands-on lessons, ignoring the IRS, and losing his company's license to produce radioactive material. Still, he considered it a win when he was still cogent because 'those boys at oak ridge saved him from the draft.' Can't argue with that. Or at least, I sure as hell can't, especially since my other grandpop served in the Pacific theater and was very quiet about the whole thing besides using certain, uh, racial epithets to his death. Let's all stop and appreciate the lack of serious global conflict around now, yeah?

hnthrwawy566 9y ago

> At least, we no longer consider things like slavery and sexism OK No one has ever thought sexism is OK just like no one has ever thought murder is OK. The term contains within it the implicit value judgement. So long as there is sexual dimorphism among humans there will be a fundamental nature to the relations between the sexes and gender roles. If you would like to keep your mind closed and not think about the possibility that what we have now is not necessarily in keeping with that nature, that is your prerogative.

projektir 9y ago
> No one has ever thought sexism is OK... They have. Aristotle: > "[T]he relation of male to female is by nature a relation of superior to inferior and ruler to ruled". This is exactly what sexism is. It's perceiving women as inferior to men. Why one does so is beside the point. If one finds justifications for being OK with sexism, such as sexism reflecting nature, that doesn't change the fact that they're OK with sexism. > just like no one has ever thought murder is OK. Murder is definitely very OK in the natural world, so if that's your sticking philosophy, it's pretty much a necessary requirement. > there will be a fundamental nature to the relations between the sexes and gender roles I already addressed that this is one of the limiting factors on "great thinkers" and why often their thought patterns are so similar: > Well, there is something to it... it's often reflecting the natural order of things... > If you would like to keep your mind closed and not think about the possibility that what we have now is not necessarily in keeping with that nature, that is your prerogative. Oh, I'm fully aware we're not fully keeping up with nature, and I consider that a very good thing.

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