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> Major commercial players in the meditation space The sheer insanity of this phrase astounds me. There's an industry devoted to meditation. For such a thing

> Major commercial players in the meditation space The sheer insanity of this phrase astounds me. There's an industry devoted to meditation. For such a thing to exist, you have to start by convincing people that they're not meditating right. Which means some people are better at it than others and you should worry about not being as good. What's next, competitive meditation?

bitexploder 9y ago
Guided meditation is a big deal. I know a number of people who use Headspace. Also, obviously, some people are better at meditating. I think most meditation practitioners tend to sort of remove ego, not add to it. So I don't see anyone being competitive about it. But I do see people desperate for the benefits and looking to those good at it to show them the way. There are worse things people could be trying really hard to get good at :) A lot of meditation and mindfulness encourages an active focus on other people and how they are feeling. I think it is generally wholesome with a side industry trying to take money from people who heard it was good.
- sevensor 9y ago
  > obviously, some people are better at meditating This is not obvious to me. This is the message the meditation industry is trying to sell, and I'm not buying it. We have a long history in the West of selling pre-packaged individually-wrapped enlightenment products and claiming they come from the East, where enlightenment was invented. But that's marketing, not reality.
  - mistermann 9y ago
    > This is the message the meditation industry is trying to sell, and I'm not buying it. Why do you find this hard to believe? Meditation and mindfulness is a skill, there are in fact various techniques or approaches one can take to improve the effectiveness. Being opposed to charging money for this is one thing, denying its existence is something else.
    - visarga 9y ago
      It really is a skill. You can get good at it in a very short time, or in a lifetime, or never.
jamesrcole 9y ago
> There's an industry devoted to meditation. For such a thing to exist, you have to start by convincing people that they're not meditating right The second sentence does not follow from the first. Why do you think it does?
- sevensor 9y ago
  Well, I think I'm meditating just fine, thank you very much, and I don't need a meditation industry to help me. This is a problem for the meditation industry, because it means they can't sell me meditation products. They need me to believe that I could be meditating better if I had their product or service, so there's a huge incentive for them to try to convince me that I'm meditating wrong.
  - jamesrcole 9y ago
    Good for you. Just because a person can do something fine by themselves doesn't mean that a service can't help other people. Some people can work out fine by themselves. Personal trainers help others. The existence of personal trainers doesn't stop anyone from working out themselves, and they do provide a benefit to some people. Why does a, say, app have to be telling you're doing it sub-optimally?? Why can't it be something that provides things like convenience or assistance?
    - sevensor 9y ago
      > Why can't it be something that provides things like convenience or assistance Because the experience and practice of meditation is so entirely subjective as to make these claims absurd. What does convenience mean to meditation, when all that meditation requires is for you to be present?
      - mistermann 9y ago
        Do you consider this book to be snake oil? https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Illuminated-Complete-Meditation-Integrating/dp/0990847705 https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Illuminated-Complete-Meditation-...
peterwwillis 9y ago
Competitive yoga exists, so meditation isn't far off
agumonkey 9y ago
Fun comment, but you know, people are paying to run in rooms so ..

bitexploder 9y ago

Guided meditation is a big deal. I know a number of people who use Headspace. Also, obviously, some people are better at meditating. I think most meditation practitioners tend to sort of remove ego, not add to it. So I don't see anyone being competitive about it. But I do see people desperate for the benefits and looking to those good at it to show them the way. There are worse things people could be trying really hard to get good at :) A lot of meditation and mindfulness encourages an active focus on other people and how they are feeling. I think it is generally wholesome with a side industry trying to take money from people who heard it was good.

sevensor 9y ago
> obviously, some people are better at meditating This is not obvious to me. This is the message the meditation industry is trying to sell, and I'm not buying it. We have a long history in the West of selling pre-packaged individually-wrapped enlightenment products and claiming they come from the East, where enlightenment was invented. But that's marketing, not reality.
- mistermann 9y ago
  > This is the message the meditation industry is trying to sell, and I'm not buying it. Why do you find this hard to believe? Meditation and mindfulness is a skill, there are in fact various techniques or approaches one can take to improve the effectiveness. Being opposed to charging money for this is one thing, denying its existence is something else.
  - visarga 9y ago
    It really is a skill. You can get good at it in a very short time, or in a lifetime, or never.

jamesrcole 9y ago

> There's an industry devoted to meditation. For such a thing to exist, you have to start by convincing people that they're not meditating right The second sentence does not follow from the first. Why do you think it does?

sevensor 9y ago
Well, I think I'm meditating just fine, thank you very much, and I don't need a meditation industry to help me. This is a problem for the meditation industry, because it means they can't sell me meditation products. They need me to believe that I could be meditating better if I had their product or service, so there's a huge incentive for them to try to convince me that I'm meditating wrong.
- jamesrcole 9y ago
  Good for you. Just because a person can do something fine by themselves doesn't mean that a service can't help other people. Some people can work out fine by themselves. Personal trainers help others. The existence of personal trainers doesn't stop anyone from working out themselves, and they do provide a benefit to some people. Why does a, say, app have to be telling you're doing it sub-optimally?? Why can't it be something that provides things like convenience or assistance?
  - sevensor 9y ago
    > Why can't it be something that provides things like convenience or assistance Because the experience and practice of meditation is so entirely subjective as to make these claims absurd. What does convenience mean to meditation, when all that meditation requires is for you to be present?
    - mistermann 9y ago
      Do you consider this book to be snake oil? https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Illuminated-Complete-Meditation-Integrating/dp/0990847705 https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Illuminated-Complete-Meditation-...

peterwwillis 9y ago

Competitive yoga exists, so meditation isn't far off

agumonkey 9y ago

Fun comment, but you know, people are paying to run in rooms so ..