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Here in Lithuania (well the empire, so Poland and Belarus too) there were a large number of Muslim settlers who arrived in the 14th century. They were known for

Here in Lithuania (well the empire, so Poland and Belarus too) there were a large number of Muslim settlers who arrived in the 14th century. They were known for their military strength and were invited by Vytautas to aid in the efforts against the Christian Crusaders. If military prowess was as highly regarded as we believe to the Vikings, I wouldn’t be surprised if they did something similar too.

chewz 9y ago
Do you mean Lipka Tatars? Yes, they were (mostly) Muslims serving in the army of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and had been settled there. But not really that many of them - 2 thousand according to 2011 cenzus. Their villages (at least only those two remaining within in Polish border) still have mosques. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipka_Tatars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipka_Tatars
int_19h 9y ago
It's entirely possible that there were converts, as well. Many European cultures pre-Christianization had pretty broad-minded attitudes towards religion, and while the majority would adhere to the predominant pagan tradition, some individuals and families would sometimes convert to another religion when exposed to it. Especially given the rather pragmatic attitude towards religious worship among pagans at the time, choosing to honor and worship a god perceived as "stronger" for whatever reason would not be inconceivable - and the impressive early military successes of the Caliphate would be seen as testament to the strength of the god proclaimed on its banners... While we're at it, one of the founding myths about Christianization of Kievan Rus involves knyaz Vladimir holding a council on which faith to convert to, and inviting preachers to compete - supposedly, Latin and Greek rites of Christianity, Islam (via Volga Bulgars), and Judaism (via Khazars) were all on the table. According to the legend, Islam was rejected first, solely on account of banning alcohol. Judaism was reviewed and rejected next, because the loss of Jerusalem and destruction of the Temple was seen as a clear sign of divine weakness by the pagan Rus. Finally, between the Greek and the Latin rites of Christianity, they picked Greek, because Greek churches and priests were decorated much more lavishly (with lots of prominently displayed gold etc), while Latin ones were more subdued. While it's almost certainly a legend that does not correspond to an actual event, its very premise speaks volumes about how religion was viewed in that time period.
- jmnicolas 9y ago
  Is there a reason given why he wanted to choose a religion ?
  - int_19h 9y ago
    The country (Kievan Rus) was basically just freshly minted at that point, and its various constituent regions, and their respective tribes, didn't really see themselves as a single nation yet - Vladimir's grandfather Igor was killed in a rebellion when trying to collect tribute from one, for example. It occurred to Vladimir that to strengthen the centralized rule of a single king - himself - a monotheistic religion, mirroring the desired arrangement in the spiritual sphere, and providing religious backing to his right to rule ("divine right of kings" etc), would be helpful. Initially, he tried to reform the existing pagan religion, by taking one god - Perun (god of war and thunder) - and elevating him above others as the supreme god. But that didn't take up too well, and meanwhile, he saw the far more successful examples of what he was trying to do happening in Bulgaria and Poland, with Christianity as the unifying force. He also wanted to have a strong relationship with neighboring Byzantium. In particular, after getting involved into their ongoing civil war, and supporting the ruling emperor against the rebels, he convinced (or forced, depending on your perspective - it was a condition for his support) the emperor to give his sister in marriage to him - but converting to Christianity was a prerequisite for that. And, of course, a Christian ruler needed Christianity as a state religion, if he wanted religious backing. This last part is why the legend is most likely just that, a legend - Greek-rite Christianity was really the obvious pragmatic choice in the circumstances.
    - jmnicolas 9y ago
      Thanks for this detailed answer.
- Grustaf 9y ago
  >According to the legend, Islam was rejected first, solely on account of banning alcohol. That may be one version. In another the people tasked with finding a new faith came back to Vladimir and talked about how boring the muslim rituals were, "they first look this way, then that way", whereas when they came to Hagia Sophia they "thought they were in heaven". There were also geopolitical considerations, Byzantium was still very strong and Vladimir wanted to marry the emperor's sister Anna (Porphyrogenita).

chewz 9y ago

Do you mean Lipka Tatars? Yes, they were (mostly) Muslims serving in the army of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and had been settled there. But not really that many of them - 2 thousand according to 2011 cenzus. Their villages (at least only those two remaining within in Polish border) still have mosques. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipka_Tatars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipka_Tatars

int_19h 9y ago

It's entirely possible that there were converts, as well. Many European cultures pre-Christianization had pretty broad-minded attitudes towards religion, and while the majority would adhere to the predominant pagan tradition, some individuals and families would sometimes convert to another religion when exposed to it. Especially given the rather pragmatic attitude towards religious worship among pagans at the time, choosing to honor and worship a god perceived as "stronger" for whatever reason would not be inconceivable - and the impressive early military successes of the Caliphate would be seen as testament to the strength of the god proclaimed on its banners... While we're at it, one of the founding myths about Christianization of Kievan Rus involves knyaz Vladimir holding a council on which faith to convert to, and inviting preachers to compete - supposedly, Latin and Greek rites of Christianity, Islam (via Volga Bulgars), and Judaism (via Khazars) were all on the table. According to the legend, Islam was rejected first, solely on account of banning alcohol. Judaism was reviewed and rejected next, because the loss of Jerusalem and destruction of the Temple was seen as a clear sign of divine weakness by the pagan Rus. Finally, between the Greek and the Latin rites of Christianity, they picked Greek, because Greek churches and priests were decorated much more lavishly (with lots of prominently displayed gold etc), while Latin ones were more subdued. While it's almost certainly a legend that does not correspond to an actual event, its very premise speaks volumes about how religion was viewed in that time period.

jmnicolas 9y ago
Is there a reason given why he wanted to choose a religion ?
- int_19h 9y ago
  The country (Kievan Rus) was basically just freshly minted at that point, and its various constituent regions, and their respective tribes, didn't really see themselves as a single nation yet - Vladimir's grandfather Igor was killed in a rebellion when trying to collect tribute from one, for example. It occurred to Vladimir that to strengthen the centralized rule of a single king - himself - a monotheistic religion, mirroring the desired arrangement in the spiritual sphere, and providing religious backing to his right to rule ("divine right of kings" etc), would be helpful. Initially, he tried to reform the existing pagan religion, by taking one god - Perun (god of war and thunder) - and elevating him above others as the supreme god. But that didn't take up too well, and meanwhile, he saw the far more successful examples of what he was trying to do happening in Bulgaria and Poland, with Christianity as the unifying force. He also wanted to have a strong relationship with neighboring Byzantium. In particular, after getting involved into their ongoing civil war, and supporting the ruling emperor against the rebels, he convinced (or forced, depending on your perspective - it was a condition for his support) the emperor to give his sister in marriage to him - but converting to Christianity was a prerequisite for that. And, of course, a Christian ruler needed Christianity as a state religion, if he wanted religious backing. This last part is why the legend is most likely just that, a legend - Greek-rite Christianity was really the obvious pragmatic choice in the circumstances.
  - jmnicolas 9y ago
    Thanks for this detailed answer.
Grustaf 9y ago
>According to the legend, Islam was rejected first, solely on account of banning alcohol. That may be one version. In another the people tasked with finding a new faith came back to Vladimir and talked about how boring the muslim rituals were, "they first look this way, then that way", whereas when they came to Hagia Sophia they "thought they were in heaven". There were also geopolitical considerations, Byzantium was still very strong and Vladimir wanted to marry the emperor's sister Anna (Porphyrogenita).