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This is terrible advice. If a client isn't holding up their end of a contract with you it doesn't suddenly make it okay to start lying to them to get what you

This is terrible advice. If a client isn't holding up their end of a contract with you it doesn't suddenly make it okay to start lying to them to get what you want. What happens when the client finds out that you invented a fake person to pressure them into paying you? What happens when word gets out in your industry that you are a liar who will stoop to deceiving your customers if you're not getting what you want? There are few, if any, things more important in business than your name and your reputation. I would much rather take the loss on the contract and move on than risk being seen as untrustworthy.

jason_tko 16y ago
You make some very good points on the cost/benefit issues of this kind of strategy, and I'd be interested to explore them. Although the incendiary language makes it hard to discuss substance. Is everyone in accounts departments pressuring others to pay? Are you not 'getting what you want' if you're not paid on time? Or are you entirely justified to follow up a late payment in both of these circumstances?
- thinkzig 16y ago
  Terrible. Liar. Deceiving. Untrustworthy. These are indeed incendiary words, and they were used to make a point, but certainly not to make a personal attack, so I apologize if it came off that way. My point in using language like this was to illustrate how others may perceive you and your business if word of the "Virtual Tony" gambit got out. It's not fun to see things like this written about you, and it can kill your business. In my experience there are two kinds of clients that don't pay on time: clients that genuinely want to pay but can't for a legit reason, and clients that have no intention of paying you and will do anything to weasel out of it. It's the latter that could really use the "Virtual Tony" against you if it ever came to light. These are bad people anyway, and by doing something dishonest in return you are just giving them more ammunition to get away with it. Did you happen to catch the case of Carl Herold on Reddit a month or so ago? He had a deal go south with a client and the guy smeared him all over the internet and almost ruined his business. [1] In that case, Carl was in the right and still had all kinds of harm done to him because of a disgruntled client. Imagine if Carl had pulled the "Virtual Tony" on this guy. I'm guessing Reddit wouldn't have jumped to his aid to help him out because they would've seen him as dishonest. To your point, you are certainly justified in following up with a client if you're not getting paid. And I certainly think there's validity to the idea that a third party, good cop/bad cop relationship could help things turn out better for everyone in the end. What I totally disagree with is making that person up and impersonating him or her to your client. It's a bad road to go down and not worth the potentially devastating hit your reputation would take if it got out. 1- http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ckcjc/reddit_can_you_please_help_me_for_five_years_i/ http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ckcjc/reddit_can_...
  - jason_tko 16y ago
    Once again, plenty of valid and well thought out points, and I agree with all of them. It was your response that made me re-think the way I phrased the original article. While I know some people who have been successful using this kind of strategy for years, it's certainly not something I'd generally advocate for all of the reasons you've pointed out. Carl certainly would have looked more dishonest in that scenario. However as I understand it, his scenario was a partnership with another company. So it may not be directly applicable to my article, which is in regards to service companies acting as vendors to other companies. One last footnote: in my experience, there is a third kind of client that doesn't pay on time. The apathetic client. This client is often large and deals primarily with much larger companies, or has a billing department in a different country, or is unfamiliar with your company's contract. In this situation, as others have suggested, a gentle reminder email from accounts@your-compay.com may be a good way to get attention drawn to your pending invoice without personally stepping into the middle of the transaction. This was the main point I was trying to communicate anyway - the importance of separation between accounts and the day-to-days.
bugsy 16y ago
The fake person is not to pressure them into paying you. It is to separate financial and customer service concerns. If you want to talk about dishonest no good lowlifes, let's talk about the client who doesn't pay for the product.
- andrewljohnson 16y ago
  Dang it, meant to down-vote you, but the voting arrows are broken here forever. There is no excuse for lying.
  - bugsy 16y ago
    Establishing a fictional name in order to separate concerns is not lying unless you are prepared to assert that Marion Morrison, Samuel Clemens and Brian Hugh Warner are lying when they do the same.
sprout 16y ago
Just make an automated system that reminds clients that their bills are overdue. Then it makes sense for it to come from accounts@yourcompany.com - it's just a bot. Really, there's nothing dishonest about sending email from accounts@yourcompany.com when you're dealing with accounts. Just happening not to mention that you're using a different email address for that isn't a big deal.

jason_tko 16y ago

You make some very good points on the cost/benefit issues of this kind of strategy, and I'd be interested to explore them. Although the incendiary language makes it hard to discuss substance. Is everyone in accounts departments pressuring others to pay? Are you not 'getting what you want' if you're not paid on time? Or are you entirely justified to follow up a late payment in both of these circumstances?

thinkzig 16y ago
Terrible. Liar. Deceiving. Untrustworthy. These are indeed incendiary words, and they were used to make a point, but certainly not to make a personal attack, so I apologize if it came off that way. My point in using language like this was to illustrate how others may perceive you and your business if word of the "Virtual Tony" gambit got out. It's not fun to see things like this written about you, and it can kill your business. In my experience there are two kinds of clients that don't pay on time: clients that genuinely want to pay but can't for a legit reason, and clients that have no intention of paying you and will do anything to weasel out of it. It's the latter that could really use the "Virtual Tony" against you if it ever came to light. These are bad people anyway, and by doing something dishonest in return you are just giving them more ammunition to get away with it. Did you happen to catch the case of Carl Herold on Reddit a month or so ago? He had a deal go south with a client and the guy smeared him all over the internet and almost ruined his business. [1] In that case, Carl was in the right and still had all kinds of harm done to him because of a disgruntled client. Imagine if Carl had pulled the "Virtual Tony" on this guy. I'm guessing Reddit wouldn't have jumped to his aid to help him out because they would've seen him as dishonest. To your point, you are certainly justified in following up with a client if you're not getting paid. And I certainly think there's validity to the idea that a third party, good cop/bad cop relationship could help things turn out better for everyone in the end. What I totally disagree with is making that person up and impersonating him or her to your client. It's a bad road to go down and not worth the potentially devastating hit your reputation would take if it got out. 1- http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ckcjc/reddit_can_you_please_help_me_for_five_years_i/ http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ckcjc/reddit_can_...
- jason_tko 16y ago
  Once again, plenty of valid and well thought out points, and I agree with all of them. It was your response that made me re-think the way I phrased the original article. While I know some people who have been successful using this kind of strategy for years, it's certainly not something I'd generally advocate for all of the reasons you've pointed out. Carl certainly would have looked more dishonest in that scenario. However as I understand it, his scenario was a partnership with another company. So it may not be directly applicable to my article, which is in regards to service companies acting as vendors to other companies. One last footnote: in my experience, there is a third kind of client that doesn't pay on time. The apathetic client. This client is often large and deals primarily with much larger companies, or has a billing department in a different country, or is unfamiliar with your company's contract. In this situation, as others have suggested, a gentle reminder email from accounts@your-compay.com may be a good way to get attention drawn to your pending invoice without personally stepping into the middle of the transaction. This was the main point I was trying to communicate anyway - the importance of separation between accounts and the day-to-days.

bugsy 16y ago

The fake person is not to pressure them into paying you. It is to separate financial and customer service concerns. If you want to talk about dishonest no good lowlifes, let's talk about the client who doesn't pay for the product.

andrewljohnson 16y ago
Dang it, meant to down-vote you, but the voting arrows are broken here forever. There is no excuse for lying.
- bugsy 16y ago
  Establishing a fictional name in order to separate concerns is not lying unless you are prepared to assert that Marion Morrison, Samuel Clemens and Brian Hugh Warner are lying when they do the same.

sprout 16y ago

Just make an automated system that reminds clients that their bills are overdue. Then it makes sense for it to come from accounts@yourcompany.com - it's just a bot. Really, there's nothing dishonest about sending email from accounts@yourcompany.com when you're dealing with accounts. Just happening not to mention that you're using a different email address for that isn't a big deal.