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People: PLEASE STOP recommending depressed people to take psychedelics. There is no such thing as "psychedelic therapy." Psychedelics can easily make people wit

People: PLEASE STOP recommending depressed people to take psychedelics. There is no such thing as "psychedelic therapy." Psychedelics can easily make people with mental health issues MUCH WORSE. Nobody needs a full blown existential crisis on top of major depression. I get it if you like the idea of doing psychedelics, but they are mind-altering in significant and poorly understood ways, and can easily cause others harm - even if you feel they've done good for you.

dimal 9y ago
There is ketamine therapy, which has shown a lot of promise. But I agree, it's important to do it as "therapy" under supervision of a doctor and a qualified therapist, and not just jumping into a K-hole on your own. Just going off and doing psychedelics willy nilly can do more harm than good.
tpm 9y ago
There is indeed a thing called "psychedelic therapy", however it is not developed enough to recommend it to nearly [1] anyone at this stage. Pilot studies and clinical trials are being done and more prepared [2] for treating treatment-resistant depression with psychedelic therapy and there is a growing body of literature suggesting it really might be a significant help, we are not just there yet. [1] A relevant quote from: Robin L Carhart-Harris and Guy M Goodwin, The Therapeutic Potential of Psychedelic Drugs: Past, Present, and Future: "However, there is an important corollary to the continuing illegal status of psychedelics. It seems to me paradoxical, even incredible, that such drugs should not be available for medical use in conditions for which euthanasia is already available. In Belgium, neuropsychiatric disorders were first reported under euthanasia legislation in 2004/5. Of the first such 100 patients considered for euthanasia between 2007 and 2011, 58 had depression. Forty-eight of the total were accepted for euthanasia (35 completed) and 6 others had died by suicide within 12 months from the end of the study. Most patients were female, aged 40-60 years. Euthanasia for psychological suffering is similarly available in the Netherlands and Luxemburg." [2] https://www.ft.com/content/16209090-9589-11e7-a652-cde3f882dd7b?mhq5j=e5 https://www.ft.com/content/16209090-9589-11e7-a652-cde3f882d...
coleifer 9y ago
It's a hackernews meme. Just ignore it and move on.
notduncansmith 9y ago
I think we can assume that any suggested treatment has the potential to make things worse, and psychedelic therapy is no exception. Furthermore, in a scenario where one ends up in a "full blown existential crisis", it's likely that one did not undergo psychedelic therapy, one merely took psychedelics. Finally, just because you have an existential crisis doesn't mean it didn't work. Sometimes that's part of the healing process. Just like with physical therapy, our wounds can make certain movements painful, and we make them natural again through deliberate practice.
- noxToken 9y ago
  I think what GP is getting at (somewhat anyway) is the people who say, "Drop acid or do shrooms at home. You'll come out a changed man." That's not psychedelic therapy. As you said, that's taking psychedelics in hopes of therapeutic benefits. I've seen people say that a non-trivial amount of time in threads like these. It could work, but that's a huge gamble.
dpc59 9y ago
There's overwhelming scientific scientific evidence that supports the potential of psychedelic therapy. Enough for the various governments to give the Multidisciplinary association for psychedelic research the legal right to study scheduled psychedelic compounds like ayahuasca, lsd, mdma and psilocybin. http://www.maps.org/research http://www.maps.org/research
dovin 9y ago
Psychedelic therapy is very real. MDMA was recently deemed a "breakthrough therapy" by the FDA, which means Phase 3 trials are being fast-tracked as they have shown so far to treat PTSD far better than anything currently on the market. This is just the beginning of rigorous research into psychedelic therapy. We don't have good non-anecdotal data on how it treats depression yet, but we'll get there. And the data is compelling enough so far that to completely dismiss the entire idea is closing your eyes to very valuable tools that we're just beginning to understand.
- a_t48 9y ago
  A big part of psychedelic therapy is the second part - "therapy". Psychedelics by themselves may help or may hurt, it's a bit of a roll of the dice. The thing being fast tracked by the FDA includes guidance by a therapist and isn't just taking E in your bedroom. These treatments can _absolutely_ be helpful, but it needs to be done the right way. The GP comment isn't saying that they aren't helpful (and neither am I!), only that it isn't a magic bullet. Set and setting are important.
Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
I think it's important to point a critical eye at any treatment you consider. The pharma industry is not exactly someone I'd trust, either.
CuriouslyC 9y ago
As a counterpoint, ayahausca is a big part of the reason I'm alive today. In a few trips I achieved more than in a lifetime of therapy and antidepressants. I say, if you're on the verge of suicide, what have you got to lose?
curun1r 9y ago
You can say the same thing about anti-depressants too, especially the part about it making thing MUCH WORSE. I lost a decade of my life before I realized they were just numbing me to my situation and allowing me to not deal with it. There is no right answer when it comes to depression and almost everything that works for someone will be counterproductive for someone else. Having been through it, the absolute wrong approach is to play it safe and be sure that you don't make it worse. We only have one life and I can't imagine anything worse then going through 80 years depressed. Better to risk making it worse, IMHO.

dimal 9y ago

There is ketamine therapy, which has shown a lot of promise. But I agree, it's important to do it as "therapy" under supervision of a doctor and a qualified therapist, and not just jumping into a K-hole on your own. Just going off and doing psychedelics willy nilly can do more harm than good.

tpm 9y ago

There is indeed a thing called "psychedelic therapy", however it is not developed enough to recommend it to nearly [1] anyone at this stage. Pilot studies and clinical trials are being done and more prepared [2] for treating treatment-resistant depression with psychedelic therapy and there is a growing body of literature suggesting it really might be a significant help, we are not just there yet. [1] A relevant quote from: Robin L Carhart-Harris and Guy M Goodwin, The Therapeutic Potential of Psychedelic Drugs: Past, Present, and Future: "However, there is an important corollary to the continuing illegal status of psychedelics. It seems to me paradoxical, even incredible, that such drugs should not be available for medical use in conditions for which euthanasia is already available. In Belgium, neuropsychiatric disorders were first reported under euthanasia legislation in 2004/5. Of the first such 100 patients considered for euthanasia between 2007 and 2011, 58 had depression. Forty-eight of the total were accepted for euthanasia (35 completed) and 6 others had died by suicide within 12 months from the end of the study. Most patients were female, aged 40-60 years. Euthanasia for psychological suffering is similarly available in the Netherlands and Luxemburg." [2] https://www.ft.com/content/16209090-9589-11e7-a652-cde3f882dd7b?mhq5j=e5 https://www.ft.com/content/16209090-9589-11e7-a652-cde3f882d...

coleifer 9y ago

It's a hackernews meme. Just ignore it and move on.

notduncansmith 9y ago

I think we can assume that any suggested treatment has the potential to make things worse, and psychedelic therapy is no exception. Furthermore, in a scenario where one ends up in a "full blown existential crisis", it's likely that one did not undergo psychedelic therapy, one merely took psychedelics. Finally, just because you have an existential crisis doesn't mean it didn't work. Sometimes that's part of the healing process. Just like with physical therapy, our wounds can make certain movements painful, and we make them natural again through deliberate practice.

noxToken 9y ago
I think what GP is getting at (somewhat anyway) is the people who say, "Drop acid or do shrooms at home. You'll come out a changed man." That's not psychedelic therapy. As you said, that's taking psychedelics in hopes of therapeutic benefits. I've seen people say that a non-trivial amount of time in threads like these. It could work, but that's a huge gamble.

dpc59 9y ago

There's overwhelming scientific scientific evidence that supports the potential of psychedelic therapy. Enough for the various governments to give the Multidisciplinary association for psychedelic research the legal right to study scheduled psychedelic compounds like ayahuasca, lsd, mdma and psilocybin. http://www.maps.org/research http://www.maps.org/research

dovin 9y ago

Psychedelic therapy is very real. MDMA was recently deemed a "breakthrough therapy" by the FDA, which means Phase 3 trials are being fast-tracked as they have shown so far to treat PTSD far better than anything currently on the market. This is just the beginning of rigorous research into psychedelic therapy. We don't have good non-anecdotal data on how it treats depression yet, but we'll get there. And the data is compelling enough so far that to completely dismiss the entire idea is closing your eyes to very valuable tools that we're just beginning to understand.

a_t48 9y ago
A big part of psychedelic therapy is the second part - "therapy". Psychedelics by themselves may help or may hurt, it's a bit of a roll of the dice. The thing being fast tracked by the FDA includes guidance by a therapist and isn't just taking E in your bedroom. These treatments can _absolutely_ be helpful, but it needs to be done the right way. The GP comment isn't saying that they aren't helpful (and neither am I!), only that it isn't a magic bullet. Set and setting are important.

Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago

I think it's important to point a critical eye at any treatment you consider. The pharma industry is not exactly someone I'd trust, either.

CuriouslyC 9y ago

As a counterpoint, ayahausca is a big part of the reason I'm alive today. In a few trips I achieved more than in a lifetime of therapy and antidepressants. I say, if you're on the verge of suicide, what have you got to lose?

curun1r 9y ago

You can say the same thing about anti-depressants too, especially the part about it making thing MUCH WORSE. I lost a decade of my life before I realized they were just numbing me to my situation and allowing me to not deal with it. There is no right answer when it comes to depression and almost everything that works for someone will be counterproductive for someone else. Having been through it, the absolute wrong approach is to play it safe and be sure that you don't make it worse. We only have one life and I can't imagine anything worse then going through 80 years depressed. Better to risk making it worse, IMHO.