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When you visit the Tower of London and enter the bedroom chambers of the King and check out the modest bed and other things the tour guide pokes some fun at how

When you visit the Tower of London and enter the bedroom chambers of the King and check out the modest bed and other things the tour guide pokes some fun at how most modern people today live better than kings of the past.

PhilWright 9y ago
On the other hand they had lots of labor. A butler comes in to wake them and then a valet to help them dress. Then they decide to take a morning walk in the garden, so a page runs outside and tells the gardeners to make themselves scarce so they can walk without seeing the staff. They ask to take a trip down the river Thames and so a whole staff moves into operation to get the royal barge ready. It all looks effortless to the King because a large household makes it so.
- gadders 9y ago
  Henry VIIIth didn't even have to wipe his own backside. He had the Groom of the Stool: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_of_the_Stool https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_of_the_Stool
HarryHirsch 9y ago
On the other hand, consider the Arnolfini marriage portrait (that's this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Van_Eyck_-_Arnolfini_Portrait.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Van_Eyck_-_Arnolfini_Port...), and you recognize that clothes like the couple are wearing in the painting are affordable only to 1-percenters. Then and now.
- zeveb 9y ago
  > you recognize that clothes like the couple are wearing in the painting are affordable only to 1-percenters. Then and now. I'm pretty sure that someone in the SCA has made one of those outfits. In fact: https://i.pinimg.com/564x/1b/9a/4b/1b9a4b90019bef529ca2e4cd0fca46ea.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/1b/9a/4b/1b9a4b90019bef529ca2e4cd0...
  - HarryHirsch 9y ago
    Google makes it possible: http://www.naergilien.info/my-costumes/medieval-renaissance/the-arnolfini-dress/ http://www.naergilien.info/my-costumes/medieval-renaissance/... About two weeks of sewing (14 days) with approximately 7-10 hours per day (every day!); resulting in approximately 100 hours of work before the dress was finished.
    - dom0 9y ago
      i.e. the labor costs alone are around 1500-3000 €.
  - jxramos 9y ago
    haha, I love it, very get it done take charge initiative and spirit in this group I take it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Creative_Anachronism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Creative_Anachroni...
- ComputerGuru 9y ago
  Is that Arabic on the wall?
  - HarryHirsch 9y ago
    That's Latin letters, a very very florid cursive hand and reads Iohannes de eyck fuit hic 1434 - Johann van Eyck was present 1434. Note the ancient shape of the digit 4! It settled into its familiar form only in the later half of the 15th century.
    - B1FF_PSUVM 9y ago
      Just above a small mirror showing the backs of the couple and the painter at work ... (Take that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall ...)
    - ComputerGuru 9y ago
      Oh, I see it now. I was on mobile and was getting a view of the image that either couldn't (too low res) or wouldn't (bad viewport) zoom, so this is what I saw: https://i.imgur.com/yxpLRTg.png https://i.imgur.com/yxpLRTg.png As you can see, at that zoom level the words look like parts of the letters and it is the shape of the text area itself that was reminiscent of Arabic characters. Of course, once zoomed in it's a different story: https://i.imgur.com/4oQ5R2F.jpg https://i.imgur.com/4oQ5R2F.jpg
- WalterBright 9y ago
  I'd still rather wear jeans.
  - photojosh 9y ago
    I'd want my hiking pants if I lived back then. Jeans suck as soon as they get wet.
- jxramos 9y ago
  I don't see anything drastically ornate that would really bump up the labor costs like something you'd see in Elizabethan fashions. Can't be the dyes used which I understand used to be pricey but are now pretty trivial in our wide color palette. Are you thinking the fur would be the expensive part today or the fit to person tailoring? An interesting related question would be the rate tailors charged in the past vs today. I'd imagine more today since fashions have veered so dominantly to mass produced clothing that there's no demand for what what today would essentially be in the realm of costume making.
  - HarryHirsch 9y ago
    The sable fur for Giovanni's vest is expensive, of course, as is the silk cloth, and there is the fit and the tailoring, just look at the pleats. And for a really nice straw hat you can expect to pay several hundreds. The wife's outfit is three times as elaborate as his. There was a priest whom I used to know. His vestments were of exceptional taste and quality - it was his mother who made them; she knew how to sew and embroider, and where to get the proper brocade from. I never asked him about the amount of labour that went into this, but it must have been a lot.
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
You can play the same game with shorter time periods. Considering even John D. Rockefeller’s life, before antibiotics, vaccines, air conditioning, the Internet, et cetera is dire [1]. [1] https://fee.org/articles/average-americans-today-are-richer-than-john-rockefeller-ever-was/ https://fee.org/articles/average-americans-today-are-richer-...
- jxramos 9y ago
  powerful walk, sounds like the closing paragraph is the clincher... """Honestly, I wouldn’t be remotely tempted to quit the 2016 me so that I could be a one-billion-dollar-richer me in 1916. This fact means that, by 1916 standards, I am today more than a billionaire. It means, at least given my preferences, I am today materially richer than was John D. Rockefeller in 1916. And if, as I think is true, my preferences here are not unusual, then nearly every middle-class American today is richer than was America’s richest man a mere 100 years ago."""

PhilWright 9y ago

On the other hand they had lots of labor. A butler comes in to wake them and then a valet to help them dress. Then they decide to take a morning walk in the garden, so a page runs outside and tells the gardeners to make themselves scarce so they can walk without seeing the staff. They ask to take a trip down the river Thames and so a whole staff moves into operation to get the royal barge ready. It all looks effortless to the King because a large household makes it so.

gadders 9y ago
Henry VIIIth didn't even have to wipe his own backside. He had the Groom of the Stool: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_of_the_Stool https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_of_the_Stool

HarryHirsch 9y ago

On the other hand, consider the Arnolfini marriage portrait (that's this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Van_Eyck_-_Arnolfini_Portrait.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Van_Eyck_-_Arnolfini_Port...), and you recognize that clothes like the couple are wearing in the painting are affordable only to 1-percenters. Then and now.

zeveb 9y ago
> you recognize that clothes like the couple are wearing in the painting are affordable only to 1-percenters. Then and now. I'm pretty sure that someone in the SCA has made one of those outfits. In fact: https://i.pinimg.com/564x/1b/9a/4b/1b9a4b90019bef529ca2e4cd0fca46ea.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/564x/1b/9a/4b/1b9a4b90019bef529ca2e4cd0...
- HarryHirsch 9y ago
  Google makes it possible: http://www.naergilien.info/my-costumes/medieval-renaissance/the-arnolfini-dress/ http://www.naergilien.info/my-costumes/medieval-renaissance/... About two weeks of sewing (14 days) with approximately 7-10 hours per day (every day!); resulting in approximately 100 hours of work before the dress was finished.
  - dom0 9y ago
    i.e. the labor costs alone are around 1500-3000 €.
- jxramos 9y ago
  haha, I love it, very get it done take charge initiative and spirit in this group I take it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Creative_Anachronism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Creative_Anachroni...
ComputerGuru 9y ago
Is that Arabic on the wall?
- HarryHirsch 9y ago
  That's Latin letters, a very very florid cursive hand and reads Iohannes de eyck fuit hic 1434 - Johann van Eyck was present 1434. Note the ancient shape of the digit 4! It settled into its familiar form only in the later half of the 15th century.
  - B1FF_PSUVM 9y ago
    Just above a small mirror showing the backs of the couple and the painter at work ... (Take that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall ...)
  - ComputerGuru 9y ago
    Oh, I see it now. I was on mobile and was getting a view of the image that either couldn't (too low res) or wouldn't (bad viewport) zoom, so this is what I saw: https://i.imgur.com/yxpLRTg.png https://i.imgur.com/yxpLRTg.png As you can see, at that zoom level the words look like parts of the letters and it is the shape of the text area itself that was reminiscent of Arabic characters. Of course, once zoomed in it's a different story: https://i.imgur.com/4oQ5R2F.jpg https://i.imgur.com/4oQ5R2F.jpg
WalterBright 9y ago
I'd still rather wear jeans.
- photojosh 9y ago
  I'd want my hiking pants if I lived back then. Jeans suck as soon as they get wet.
jxramos 9y ago
I don't see anything drastically ornate that would really bump up the labor costs like something you'd see in Elizabethan fashions. Can't be the dyes used which I understand used to be pricey but are now pretty trivial in our wide color palette. Are you thinking the fur would be the expensive part today or the fit to person tailoring? An interesting related question would be the rate tailors charged in the past vs today. I'd imagine more today since fashions have veered so dominantly to mass produced clothing that there's no demand for what what today would essentially be in the realm of costume making.
- HarryHirsch 9y ago
  The sable fur for Giovanni's vest is expensive, of course, as is the silk cloth, and there is the fit and the tailoring, just look at the pleats. And for a really nice straw hat you can expect to pay several hundreds. The wife's outfit is three times as elaborate as his. There was a priest whom I used to know. His vestments were of exceptional taste and quality - it was his mother who made them; she knew how to sew and embroider, and where to get the proper brocade from. I never asked him about the amount of labour that went into this, but it must have been a lot.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

You can play the same game with shorter time periods. Considering even John D. Rockefeller’s life, before antibiotics, vaccines, air conditioning, the Internet, et cetera is dire [1]. [1] https://fee.org/articles/average-americans-today-are-richer-than-john-rockefeller-ever-was/ https://fee.org/articles/average-americans-today-are-richer-...

jxramos 9y ago
powerful walk, sounds like the closing paragraph is the clincher... """Honestly, I wouldn’t be remotely tempted to quit the 2016 me so that I could be a one-billion-dollar-richer me in 1916. This fact means that, by 1916 standards, I am today more than a billionaire. It means, at least given my preferences, I am today materially richer than was John D. Rockefeller in 1916. And if, as I think is true, my preferences here are not unusual, then nearly every middle-class American today is richer than was America’s richest man a mere 100 years ago."""