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The Boring Company has a solution for housing: tunnels with no traffic or stoplights. 200kph means you can live far from downtown and still be at work in 15 min

The Boring Company has a solution for housing: tunnels with no traffic or stoplights. 200kph means you can live far from downtown and still be at work in 15 minutes. “Without tunnels we’ll be in traffic hell forever” -Elon Musk

MrMorden 9y ago
So what does Elon Musk know about boring that Martin Herrenknecht does not? I'd love to see some more affordable tunneling methods, but I'm not holding my breath.
x0x0 9y ago
I don't understand how that helps. You can't built very many 200mph tunnels, so housing at the ends will still have to be very dense or people will have to drive far to get to the stations. So this just shifts the housing density problem.
- paulsutter 9y ago
  Shifting to a less hidebound / bureaucratic location is a great solution. Also: Elon’s goal is a more than 10x reduction in costs, and he’ll be able to charge related to the value of people’s time.
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    So, Suburbs 2.0?
  - x0x0 9y ago
    I think you're crazy to believe that if you go build a bunch of very dense housing anywhere, you won't shortly thereafter have a bunch of bureaucracy as a lot of people have to figure out how to live in close quarters. Again, as near as I can tell, the best possible outcome of ultra high speed tunnel transport is you move the dense housing problem (or the traffic problem) elsewhere. That's not actually a solution. I also think it only appears easier than eg fixing sfbay's housing problems.
    - paulsutter 9y ago
      Ok then what’s your solution? Or, you’re saying there is no solution and we’re permanently stuck with commutes and housing prices from hell?
      - akgerber 9y ago
        Run an S-bahn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-train https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-train) through the tunnel for 10x the throughput of humans for a given tunneling cost. Cars are a profoundly inefficient use of space in a dense area. The only way an auto tunnel network would solve traffic is by charging a sufficiently-high toll to match supply with demand. Otherwise, in an area dense enough that traffic congestion is a problem, induced demand will lead to congestion: https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.101.6.2616 https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.101.6.2616
        paulsutter 9y ago
        Boring Company tunnels are NOT for cars-only, they do envision public-transportation-like services which will be much better to move between dense areas: https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2017/05/26/104494945-Boring-electric-vehicle-2.1910x1000.jpg?v=1495813998 https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/edit...
      - ghaff 9y ago
        The attractive areas of denser cities do tend to be more expensive than in less built-up areas. But there are plenty of cities that don't have housing prices from hell. Some also have fairly reasonable commuting times by rail although it's always going to take time to get from outside a city into a city. Furthermore, there are plenty of companies and housing on the outskirts of cities where there are reasonable housing and commutes. If everyone wants to live within 30 minutes of a Manhattan office, no, then there's probably no solution.
      - balls187 9y ago
        Virtual Offices along with Self Driving Cars
pavel_lishin 9y ago
Wasn't that the promise made to us after World War II by automotive manufacturers? We built cars, we built highways - and the inner cities suffered, and then people stuck in suburban hell suffered. How is this significantly better? We still have to distribute people from their houses to the tunnel, and from the tunnel to where they want to go.
XR0CSWV3h3kZWg 9y ago
It's a neat idea, but too far away. Even in Elon time.

MrMorden 9y ago

So what does Elon Musk know about boring that Martin Herrenknecht does not? I'd love to see some more affordable tunneling methods, but I'm not holding my breath.

x0x0 9y ago

I don't understand how that helps. You can't built very many 200mph tunnels, so housing at the ends will still have to be very dense or people will have to drive far to get to the stations. So this just shifts the housing density problem.

paulsutter 9y ago
Shifting to a less hidebound / bureaucratic location is a great solution. Also: Elon’s goal is a more than 10x reduction in costs, and he’ll be able to charge related to the value of people’s time.
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  So, Suburbs 2.0?
- x0x0 9y ago
  I think you're crazy to believe that if you go build a bunch of very dense housing anywhere, you won't shortly thereafter have a bunch of bureaucracy as a lot of people have to figure out how to live in close quarters. Again, as near as I can tell, the best possible outcome of ultra high speed tunnel transport is you move the dense housing problem (or the traffic problem) elsewhere. That's not actually a solution. I also think it only appears easier than eg fixing sfbay's housing problems.
  - paulsutter 9y ago
    Ok then what’s your solution? Or, you’re saying there is no solution and we’re permanently stuck with commutes and housing prices from hell?
    - akgerber 9y ago
      Run an S-bahn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-train https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-train) through the tunnel for 10x the throughput of humans for a given tunneling cost. Cars are a profoundly inefficient use of space in a dense area. The only way an auto tunnel network would solve traffic is by charging a sufficiently-high toll to match supply with demand. Otherwise, in an area dense enough that traffic congestion is a problem, induced demand will lead to congestion: https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.101.6.2616 https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.101.6.2616
      - paulsutter 9y ago
        Boring Company tunnels are NOT for cars-only, they do envision public-transportation-like services which will be much better to move between dense areas: https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/editorial/2017/05/26/104494945-Boring-electric-vehicle-2.1910x1000.jpg?v=1495813998 https://fm.cnbc.com/applications/cnbc.com/resources/img/edit...
    - ghaff 9y ago
      The attractive areas of denser cities do tend to be more expensive than in less built-up areas. But there are plenty of cities that don't have housing prices from hell. Some also have fairly reasonable commuting times by rail although it's always going to take time to get from outside a city into a city. Furthermore, there are plenty of companies and housing on the outskirts of cities where there are reasonable housing and commutes. If everyone wants to live within 30 minutes of a Manhattan office, no, then there's probably no solution.
    - balls187 9y ago
      Virtual Offices along with Self Driving Cars

pavel_lishin 9y ago

Wasn't that the promise made to us after World War II by automotive manufacturers? We built cars, we built highways - and the inner cities suffered, and then people stuck in suburban hell suffered. How is this significantly better? We still have to distribute people from their houses to the tunnel, and from the tunnel to where they want to go.

XR0CSWV3h3kZWg 9y ago

It's a neat idea, but too far away. Even in Elon time.