5 ms·

Careful with that advice. It might have been good for you, it might be good for a lot of depressive people, but definitely not for all. Before I turned twenty I

by jlg23 9y ago

Careful with that advice. It might have been good for you, it might be good for a lot of depressive people, but definitely not for all. Before I turned twenty I met two people my age who took your advice and exercised until ambulances had to pick them up (literally). Whatever you do to counter your depression, have a trustworthy, knowledgeable aid at your side: a therapist.

ClassyJacket 9y ago
This is the most ridiculous and irrelevant warning I can imagine. Almost nobody us at risk of over exercising if they haven't started yet. It's like saying "Don't eat salad, I know someone that ate so much lettuce they got sick."
- jlg23 9y ago
  I fail to see the connection between ~"don't see exercising as a golden bullet against depression" and what you claim I've said.
  - PantaloonFlames 9y ago
    you said "[exercise] might be good for a lot of depressive people, but definitely not for all." Which is dead wrong. Exercise is good for humans, depressed or not. You also said, "Before I turned twenty I met two people my age who took your advice and exercised until ambulances had to pick them up (literally). " ...apparently as a warning that exercise is dangerous. But as you can see, it's a ridiculous statement. Sure, people should see a therapist. They should also exercise. Go for a walk. Move around. They should also gain some sleep discipline. Those are easy to start with. There's no mutual exclusion here. Just because someone is exercising and sleeping right, does not mean they cannot talk to a therapist.
    - rrix2 9y ago
      i read it as "might be good enough", which is entirely closer to the meaning that parent was trying to get at, I think.
      - eradicatethots 9y ago
        Also I don’t think gp was trying very hard (at all?) to understand this point
- jrowley 9y ago
  It's easy to become dependent on exercising, push too hard, get injured, and struggle while you can't exercise. Moderation can be difficult for some of us even with something like running.
  - sp3000 9y ago
    Here is where the benefits of promoting exercise far outweigh any risks that people who exercise may experience. There is no need to hedge here. Exercise might not cure your depression or even help it, but in general, exercise has been shown over and over again to be one of the most effective things that you can do for mental and physical health.
    - projektir 9y ago
      I can't really agree with this, there are definitely lots of negative avenues from exercise if not done right. Generally, hopefully, most people will do exercise more or less "right", but this is not a safe assumption.
      - boomlinde 9y ago
        That could be said of almost any healthy thing.
- CJefferson 9y ago
  It's very easy to over exercise if you haven't started yet, I seriously hurt myself after a couple of weeks of running, as my body was nowhere near prepared for it.
Nav_Panel 9y ago
This is an almost absurd criticism ("be careful telling people to sleep, people I know who were depressed followed that advice and slept for 12-14 hours every day"). Let's fix it by being more specific, so we don't accidentally cause any more problems: "daily moderate-intensity cardiovascular exercise" (or, if you prefer, "resistance training 3x week"). Or even, "a healthy level of exercise". I agree that therapy is a good idea, but you shouldn't need a therapist to figure this one out. A reasonable amount of exercise is good for pretty much everyone.
- Mz 9y ago
  I don't think it is absurd. I have a genetic disorder. All of the standard diet and exercise advice failed me in every metric until I had a proper diagnosis. Lots of people have unidentified health issues. Underlying health issues can cause low energy, which can be mistaken for depression.
- jlg23 9y ago
  > This is an almost absurd criticism. [...] A reasonable amount of exercise is good for pretty much everyone. "Ok, if you say so" and "of course". But the general advice to do some exercises and the advice to exercise "to counter depression" are two completely different things. I'm trying to be as neutral as possible here: If a friend of yours needs help, please don't tell them that they "shouldn't need a therapist to figure [out a way out]". Psychology ain't an exact science even though most "science journalism" wants you make to believe that. So, whatever "wisdom" one picks up, treat it with a grain^Wbag of salt. EDIT: parent was edited the substantially & while my principal response still holds, I would not even have responded to a response as hyperbolic as the parent is now.
- johnny99 9y ago
  Sometimes you need a therapist and/or meds to figure out that you need to (or even can) figure it out, and it's possible to overdo just about anything, certainly including exercise and sleep. Depression puts you at the bottom of a well, and by definition not thinking clearly. You're dangerously close to telling people to just deal with it on their own, which is harmful and cold.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
thevardanian 9y ago
We're treating psychological problem like pathological ones. Mental health is not a pathological problem necessarily, but rather an physiological responsive one. As such giving medications as to "treat mental health" is the wrong perspective, and more proper perspective would one were certain physiological responses to certain environmental conditions are deemed as negative. As such to an extent the physiological responses and the interpretation of whether those responses are good or bad are dependent on social perspectives.
- pgeorgi 9y ago
  Therapy can work entirely without medication. There's a difference between psychologists and psychiatrists, and the article even spells it out.
  - thevardanian 9y ago
    Therapy works on the physiological aspects of the human by influencing the environment. Again it's not pathological.
bionoid 9y ago
> Careful with that advice. [...] Whatever you do to counter your depression, have a trustworthy, knowledgeable aid at your side: a therapist. Quoting the UiA, "One [1988] study indicates that 70% of therapists had seen for treatment at least one patient who had had sex with a previous therapist. Of the latter, 96% were male." [1] I guess the moral of my comment is - be careful giving advice (period) 1: http://encyclopedia.uia.org/en/problem/143464 http://encyclopedia.uia.org/en/problem/143464
- projektir 9y ago
  I'm not sure how this page is meant to work but I can't find the study this claim came from? It's linking to a book?
  - boomboomsubban 9y ago
    The source is a training book on how to sue psychiatrists, I can't find the study anywhere. Even if it does exist, it's saying that a lot of therapists have seen a client who had sex with a therapist. If someone wanted to have sex with a therapist, they would visit a lot of therapists. This explores the topic in a more meaningful way, and links sources. https://kspope.com/sexiss/research5.php#a8studies https://kspope.com/sexiss/research5.php#a8studies
  - bionoid 9y ago
    I assumed the study is referenced in the book (and that the quote is from the book) -- but honestly I have no idea
brookside 9y ago
I've tried to find help for something like depression for almost two decades from therapy. As much as I have wanted it to be, I haven't found therapy to be particularly powerful. Running is weak also, but insomuch as all you can do is fight and claw your way out of depression[^], long runs, in my experience, can aid to some degree. [^]Which may very well be a symptom of something(s) we don't understand yet, rather than a disease.
- eradicatethots 9y ago
  Have you tried not fighting?
  - brookside 9y ago
    What does not fighting look like on a practical level? For me, it was months jobless and isolated at a parent's house in the middle of nowhere. For others, not battling means not getting out of bed, and for people facing other "demons" (what a bad word) not fighting might mean to continue to consume drugs or alcohol, or to keep not eating, or eating too much.
    - jonnybgood 9y ago
      > What does not fighting look like on a practical level? For me, it goes "I'm feeling depressed. Okay, I feel depressed. That's interesting. Now what is it that I must do right now at this moment? Get out of bed. Okay, done. I'm still depressed, but what's next?" In other words, I don't bother fighting it or avoiding it. I just acknowledge it and then figure what needs to be done next.
      - brookside 9y ago
        I think we are in agreement that taking constant little actions is the wise course. To me, that is fighting.
      - eradicatethots 9y ago
        For me depression comes from thinking I should feel differently than I do, so fighting only makes that worse, whereas not fighting is better. Could be this is a cultural problem. In our culture we’re supposed to like work and everybody is expected to shut up.

by jlg23 9y ago

ClassyJacket 9y ago

This is the most ridiculous and irrelevant warning I can imagine. Almost nobody us at risk of over exercising if they haven't started yet. It's like saying "Don't eat salad, I know someone that ate so much lettuce they got sick."

jlg23 9y ago
I fail to see the connection between ~"don't see exercising as a golden bullet against depression" and what you claim I've said.
- PantaloonFlames 9y ago
  you said "[exercise] might be good for a lot of depressive people, but definitely not for all." Which is dead wrong. Exercise is good for humans, depressed or not. You also said, "Before I turned twenty I met two people my age who took your advice and exercised until ambulances had to pick them up (literally). " ...apparently as a warning that exercise is dangerous. But as you can see, it's a ridiculous statement. Sure, people should see a therapist. They should also exercise. Go for a walk. Move around. They should also gain some sleep discipline. Those are easy to start with. There's no mutual exclusion here. Just because someone is exercising and sleeping right, does not mean they cannot talk to a therapist.
  - rrix2 9y ago
    i read it as "might be good enough", which is entirely closer to the meaning that parent was trying to get at, I think.
    - eradicatethots 9y ago
      Also I don’t think gp was trying very hard (at all?) to understand this point
jrowley 9y ago
It's easy to become dependent on exercising, push too hard, get injured, and struggle while you can't exercise. Moderation can be difficult for some of us even with something like running.
- sp3000 9y ago
  Here is where the benefits of promoting exercise far outweigh any risks that people who exercise may experience. There is no need to hedge here. Exercise might not cure your depression or even help it, but in general, exercise has been shown over and over again to be one of the most effective things that you can do for mental and physical health.
  - projektir 9y ago
    I can't really agree with this, there are definitely lots of negative avenues from exercise if not done right. Generally, hopefully, most people will do exercise more or less "right", but this is not a safe assumption.
    - boomlinde 9y ago
      That could be said of almost any healthy thing.
CJefferson 9y ago
It's very easy to over exercise if you haven't started yet, I seriously hurt myself after a couple of weeks of running, as my body was nowhere near prepared for it.

Nav_Panel 9y ago

This is an almost absurd criticism ("be careful telling people to sleep, people I know who were depressed followed that advice and slept for 12-14 hours every day"). Let's fix it by being more specific, so we don't accidentally cause any more problems: "daily moderate-intensity cardiovascular exercise" (or, if you prefer, "resistance training 3x week"). Or even, "a healthy level of exercise". I agree that therapy is a good idea, but you shouldn't need a therapist to figure this one out. A reasonable amount of exercise is good for pretty much everyone.

Mz 9y ago
I don't think it is absurd. I have a genetic disorder. All of the standard diet and exercise advice failed me in every metric until I had a proper diagnosis. Lots of people have unidentified health issues. Underlying health issues can cause low energy, which can be mistaken for depression.
jlg23 9y ago
> This is an almost absurd criticism. [...] A reasonable amount of exercise is good for pretty much everyone. "Ok, if you say so" and "of course". But the general advice to do some exercises and the advice to exercise "to counter depression" are two completely different things. I'm trying to be as neutral as possible here: If a friend of yours needs help, please don't tell them that they "shouldn't need a therapist to figure [out a way out]". Psychology ain't an exact science even though most "science journalism" wants you make to believe that. So, whatever "wisdom" one picks up, treat it with a grain^Wbag of salt. EDIT: parent was edited the substantially & while my principal response still holds, I would not even have responded to a response as hyperbolic as the parent is now.
johnny99 9y ago
Sometimes you need a therapist and/or meds to figure out that you need to (or even can) figure it out, and it's possible to overdo just about anything, certainly including exercise and sleep. Depression puts you at the bottom of a well, and by definition not thinking clearly. You're dangerously close to telling people to just deal with it on their own, which is harmful and cold.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

thevardanian 9y ago

We're treating psychological problem like pathological ones. Mental health is not a pathological problem necessarily, but rather an physiological responsive one. As such giving medications as to "treat mental health" is the wrong perspective, and more proper perspective would one were certain physiological responses to certain environmental conditions are deemed as negative. As such to an extent the physiological responses and the interpretation of whether those responses are good or bad are dependent on social perspectives.

pgeorgi 9y ago
Therapy can work entirely without medication. There's a difference between psychologists and psychiatrists, and the article even spells it out.
- thevardanian 9y ago
  Therapy works on the physiological aspects of the human by influencing the environment. Again it's not pathological.

bionoid 9y ago

> Careful with that advice. [...] Whatever you do to counter your depression, have a trustworthy, knowledgeable aid at your side: a therapist. Quoting the UiA, "One [1988] study indicates that 70% of therapists had seen for treatment at least one patient who had had sex with a previous therapist. Of the latter, 96% were male." [1] I guess the moral of my comment is - be careful giving advice (period) 1: http://encyclopedia.uia.org/en/problem/143464 http://encyclopedia.uia.org/en/problem/143464

projektir 9y ago
I'm not sure how this page is meant to work but I can't find the study this claim came from? It's linking to a book?
- boomboomsubban 9y ago
  The source is a training book on how to sue psychiatrists, I can't find the study anywhere. Even if it does exist, it's saying that a lot of therapists have seen a client who had sex with a therapist. If someone wanted to have sex with a therapist, they would visit a lot of therapists. This explores the topic in a more meaningful way, and links sources. https://kspope.com/sexiss/research5.php#a8studies https://kspope.com/sexiss/research5.php#a8studies
- bionoid 9y ago
  I assumed the study is referenced in the book (and that the quote is from the book) -- but honestly I have no idea

brookside 9y ago

I've tried to find help for something like depression for almost two decades from therapy. As much as I have wanted it to be, I haven't found therapy to be particularly powerful. Running is weak also, but insomuch as all you can do is fight and claw your way out of depression[^], long runs, in my experience, can aid to some degree. [^]Which may very well be a symptom of something(s) we don't understand yet, rather than a disease.

eradicatethots 9y ago
Have you tried not fighting?
- brookside 9y ago
  What does not fighting look like on a practical level? For me, it was months jobless and isolated at a parent's house in the middle of nowhere. For others, not battling means not getting out of bed, and for people facing other "demons" (what a bad word) not fighting might mean to continue to consume drugs or alcohol, or to keep not eating, or eating too much.
  - jonnybgood 9y ago
    > What does not fighting look like on a practical level? For me, it goes "I'm feeling depressed. Okay, I feel depressed. That's interesting. Now what is it that I must do right now at this moment? Get out of bed. Okay, done. I'm still depressed, but what's next?" In other words, I don't bother fighting it or avoiding it. I just acknowledge it and then figure what needs to be done next.
    - brookside 9y ago
      I think we are in agreement that taking constant little actions is the wise course. To me, that is fighting.
    - eradicatethots 9y ago
      For me depression comes from thinking I should feel differently than I do, so fighting only makes that worse, whereas not fighting is better. Could be this is a cultural problem. In our culture we’re supposed to like work and everybody is expected to shut up.