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RIP the Broccoli Tree
- ierolastic 9y agoSo many things about that are depressing, like, why would someone cut into a tree like that, and why would they decide that, if one of the trunks is gone, the whole thing needs to be decimated? Both are completely absurd.
- 2bitencryption 9y agosince this entire topic seems philosophical, I'll go down this path -- someone is sitting at home, feeling worthless, like their life is pointless and they could disappear without anyone noticing. but there's this tree everyone likes. people notice this tree. because you see lots of pictures of it, people must visit it often. it's a confluence. if you were to, say, scratch your name into the bark, people would notice. you would have made some difference on the world, for better or worse. if you were to cut a branch down, people would DEFINITELY notice. people would think about you, when no one would before. even if the thoughts aren't positive. in other words, to not feel so small and meaningless.
- sydd 9y agoOr rather 3 teenagers got drunk, and wanted to do something whats "breaking the law" or "pissing off hipsters" or "really punk". and cut the tree.
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- aeze 9y agoWhich is really the same thing, if you think about it.
- rightos 9y ago
- crusso 9y agoActually, yes. Some friends tend to magnify the insecurities that a lonely/insecure person might feel. What is doing something on a dare besides a play to battle the insecurity of being labeled a "coward"?
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- Fnoord 9y ago> No, you do it for the lulz - because you'll be amused when you see people whining about it on the internet. Which is the same as "knock, knock, ginger" or as: > if you were to cut a branch down, people would DEFINITELY notice. people would think about you, when no one would before. even if the thoughts aren't positive. >in other words, to not feel so small and meaningless. Aka negative attention, trolling, NS (narcissistic supply). Its all more or less the same league, explained by what I quoted from user 2bitencryption. 2bitencryption's entire quote explains the full process in detail. Kudos.
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- monk_e_boy 9y agoI agree, kids (and teens) are immature and don't have the tools to make correct choices.
- raquo 9y agoToo many adults are no better
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- minikites 9y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herostratus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herostratus
- mjw1007 9y agoPlease consider not doing that.
- smacktoward 9y agoThe same reason people assassinate famous actors and political figures: because doing so means you'll be famous too.
- scott_s 9y agoI think it's close to, but not quite, that. Rather than wanting to be famous per se, I imagine they want to be able to observe their own impact on the wider world. A thrill that it's even possible - most life for most people sees little observable impact on most of the world. Such acts are a (terrifying, tragic) shortcut. This is, of course, speculation. But this is a philosophical thread.
- triplesec 9y agoIndeed. You could also pick a right with North Korea (or the US) for just the same kinds of 'reasons'.
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- mostafah 9y agoThere is an Arabic story about Hatim al-Tai’s brother. Hatim al-Tai was a great man, maybe the most generous person that has ever lived. He was a legend even when he was alive. One day people saw his brother peeing in the holy Well of Zamzam. This is the most sacred water in Islam. They asked him why he was doing such a thing. “My brother is famous and will be remembered forever in the history,” he said. “I can never be as wise or as generous as him, so this is how I make sure I will be remembered forever.”
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- nolok 9y agoSo am I wrong to think that by retelling this story, we make him right, thus pushing people who similarly want to be remembered forever without being "wise" to do the same?
- kbenson 9y agoOr maybe we're remembering him for giving us a pithy example with an even more pithy punchline that explains in some small way a fundamental part of the human mind? In that way, Hatim al-Tai’s brother was wrong. He was remembered for his wisdom, so much so that I only know of Hatim al-Tai as a way to express this story about his brother.
- nolok 9y agoWhatever the reason might be for us remembering, my point still stands that by retelling the story we make it so that disrespecting others and their belief was indeed the right thing to do for him to be remembered, that is what lead to his goal being reached. If the same thing happened but the story wasn't passed on, then it would not have been the right path to reach his goal. For a modern reference, that is why I'm a strong supporter of not propagating the names of people committing things like mass killings for glory, like we've seen quite a few times.
- etiam 9y agoIt's hardly clear from this particular blog post but if you look at what's been reported in newspapers almost all the trunks had been sawed in. As for why, who knows, but my guess is we're looking at a physical world manifestation of the same personality that drives many (non-professional) internet trolls. Sadistic and attention seeking.
- lobster_johnson 9y agoIt's less trolling and more griefing [1]. Some people just want to watch the world burn. I personally know a real-life griefer who spends his time disrupting discussion boards. He's an intelligent and creative guy, but he sees his mission as being a counterweight to all the positive, friendly discourse that is going on. I'm glad he limits himself to online activities. In some venues -- the multiple infamous flying penis attacks in Second Life, for example -- griefing can be fun and even beautiful. Rarely in real life. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer
- peterwwillis 9y agoSee the picture of the cut limb? (https://kottke.org/plus/misc/images/broccoli-tree-vandal-01.jpg https://kottke.org/plus/misc/images/broccoli-tree-vandal-01....) How it looks like there's a vertical crack in the limb, and kind of black in the middle? And if you look real close at the vertical cut, it looks black inside. Other parts of the tree seem to have large black spots too. Well limbs don't just crack vertically when they're cut horizontally. Either someone hacked at it vertically (no real reason), or that black spot is the mark of black canker, a willow disease. The only fix is to cut off the diseased limb in the dormant season. And it's almost the dormant season. Why did all the limbs get cut off? Dunno, maybe it had to do with canker too. But remember, plants are not here for humans' amusement - they often require trimming, chopping, replanting, large culls to prevent disease spread, and all kinds of other treatment to care for them. The end result may be an ugly tree, but a tree that lives. I could be wrong. But it's best not to dwell on the worst of things if you don't know what really happened.
- nolok 9y agoSee the top comment above yours, cutting down the whole thing once damaged seems to have been the proper way to care for the tree long term.
- keypress 9y agoI get it, a tree that has had a limb artificially removed is ugly - in my eyes at least. Even trees that are managed can look rough around the edges, whereas the natural shape of trees can be absolutely beautiful. I've tried to tame some large trees that I am stewarding, and to be honest they'd probably look better cut right back to the ground. Thin limb cuts you can get away with, but a severed fat limb looks pretty dreadful.
- matt_wulfeck 9y ago> Oscar Wilde once wrote that “Each man kills the thing he loves”. I don’t know exactly what Wilde meant by that, but our collective attention and obsession, amplified by the speed and intensity of the internet & social media, tends to ruin the things we love: authors, musicians, restaurants, actors, beloved movies, vacation spots, artists, democracies, and even a tree that became too famous to live. This is exactly true, and one of the more important reasons to use a pseudonym online and avoid social media. Any attention you get is at best short-lived, and at worst dangerous. The tree is gone because someone out there is has internalized some disturbing feelings and he (because it's probably a male) is incapable of dealing with them in a productive way. You can replace tree for almost any deviant online behavior, which encourages the feelings without satisfying them.
- craftyguy 9y ago> he (because it's probably a male) Seriously?
- matt_wulfeck 9y agoYes. It was most likely a male who took a saw to that tree. Is that a shocking statement?
- KekDemaga 9y agoFor all the down voters I offer 10 to 1 odds if you are willing to bet that the person who did this was female.
- zaroth 9y agoThis will be buried but in case you see it -- here's a better methodology for thinking about confidence in something and betting on it; http://slatestarcodex.com/predictions-bets/ http://slatestarcodex.com/predictions-bets/
- jpttsn 9y agoEmotionally troubled male, check. Probably also wears an eye patch and rides a motorcycle, lonely child, 5’2”? That flavor of case cracking only works reliably for Sherlock Holmes. I’m worried you might be creating a totem of your adversaries. In-group talks about their imagined version of the out-group, furthers polarization, prevents dialogue.
- schiffern 9y agoNote that it's a willow tree, so the vandal and workers may have "just" unintentionally coppiced it. Far from killing the tree, some of the oldest trees in the world are coppiced. Coppicing is supposed to happen in winter, but it's possible this tree could survive. Looking at the "before" picture, the tree might itself be a spray formed when an older tree was cut. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppicing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppicing
- peterwwillis 9y ago"Coppicing is a traditional method of woodland management which takes advantage of the fact that many trees make new growth from the stump or roots if cut down. In a coppiced wood, which is called a copse," I finally find out why the "copse of trees" at Gettysburg is called that. Thank you.
- lobster_johnson 9y ago"Copse" comes from "coppice", but today means any small group of trees (not necessarily any that have been coppiced).
- ckinnan 9y agoYeah, the partially severed limb needed to be fully cut off for the best interest of the tree. I'm guessing the work crew saw some rot or disease or other damage, and went ahead and coppiced the whole tree.
- tptacek 9y agoThe vandals don't care whether the tree lives or dies; they care that nobody enjoys the tree while they have to be aware of it.
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- dmix 9y agoI believe the OP was referencing the city workers who coppiced the tree, not the vandals who forced them to do so...
- akuji1993 9y agoWhy is this here?
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- ArchReaper 9y agoWhy is this on Hacker News?
- stronglikedan 9y agoBecause someone submitted it.
- call_me_k 9y agolol I see what you did :)
- speakeron 9y agoOne of the definitions of hack is "cut with rough or heavy blows".
- novium 9y agoAlso, "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" is on-topic here. I'd qualify this as that, especially since the philosophical discussion in a thread further up.
- golemotron 9y agoBefore clicking I expected the link to be about a data structure.
- xeromal 9y agoditto. Haha. It was a good read though.
- kreetx 9y ago.. and someone else thought hacker news was about the lumber industry. Seriously though, even though not related, this was a good article. I guess it goes without saying that if you care about something then don't obsess over it publicly too much, since the ruiners /will/ come.
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- sevensor 9y agoLest we blame the internet, attacking beloved trees is nothing new: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_Oak_(Austin,_Texas) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_Oak_(Austin,_Texas)
- Larrikin 9y agoThe article brought this tree attack to mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auburn_Tigers#Toomer.27s_Trees_poisoned https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auburn_Tigers#Toomer.27s_Trees...
- peatmoss 9y agoIt can even be done as a form of political protest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Tree_Hill_(New_Zealand)#New_trees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Tree_Hill_(New_Zealand)#Ne...
- undersuit 9y agoLet's not forget negligence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_Ténéré https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_Ténéré
- a_e_k 9y agoAnd in fiction, there is Bilbo's Party Tree: http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Party_Tree http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Party_Tree
- jps359 9y agoThe vandal was sentenced to 9 years in prison? That seems quite high to me. Do tree vandals normally get such harsh punishments?
- dom0 9y agoThe article mentions that he used Velpar. A large part of his sentence may stem from him having contaminated ground water (in centuries past, a crime only punishable by death most cruel).
- distances 9y ago
- nvusuvu 9y agoOne more vandal ... http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/11/harvey_updyke_poisoned_toomers.html http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/11/harvey_updyke_poiso...
- nouveau0 9y agoWhy would they bring down the whole tree if it's just vandalized?
- cableshaft 9y agoThere's so many examples of this it's just so sad. Joshua Tree on U2 album cover destroyed: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2971368/U2-fan-pilgrimaged-band-s-Joshua-Tree-outraged-finding-CHOPPED-California-desert.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2971368/U2-fan-pilgr... Kids knock down 16 million year old rock formation: https://military.id.me/news/idiots-ruin-18-million-year-old-american-treasure/ https://military.id.me/news/idiots-ruin-18-million-year-old-... One man accidentally killed the oldest tree ever: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-one-man-accidentally-killed-the-oldest-tree-ever-125764872/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-one-man-accide... World's most isolated tree knocked down by drunk driver: https://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/earths-most-isolated-tree-only-one-around-250-miles-was-struck-and-killed-drunk-driver.html https://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/earths-most-isol... So sad how an act of stupidity by as few as one person can eliminate something of beauty that's been around longer than tens, hundreds, thousands of their lifetimes.
- clarkenheim 9y agoA couple of those are not the same. When it happens by genuine accident it is not the same as vandalism.
- cableshaft 9y agoI didn't call it vandalism. I consider it to be an equivalent loss whether it happened with intent, by accident, or a freak of nature. It's all sad to me.
- vog 9y agoDoes it really make sense to apply the perception of loss for something that nature gives and takes without human influence? For example, all those interesting formations and places that disappeared 1000 years ago - so we've never seen those in the first place - are those also losses? By that logic, wouldn't be any form of natural change be huge tragedy, an endless sequence of losses?
- seunosewa 9y ago
- jplahn 9y agoThis is tangentially related to something I've been struggling with for the last year. I began getting into photography about a year and as an attempt to surround myself with inspiration, I followed many of the top landscape photographers on Instagram. While their images are beautiful and they tend to position their photographs from the perspective of "environmentalism", I can't help but feel like they've done as much damage as anything else. Two examples come to mind. Last year, the USFS extended the lottery permit season in the Enchantments by six weeks due to increasing popularity, no doubt fueled by the incredible pictures of it littered across Instagram. Iceland is a top destination for photographers (for good reason) and I traveled there two months ago, no doubt influenced by the pictures I've seen. But it felt like the country was beginning to get ruined by me and my fellow tourists. It feels like we're beginning to lose the hidden gems as more and more photographers rush to be the first. But even the non-hidden gems are beginning to get exposed more and more often. But I see the same spots being visited by all photographers and I don't see how they'll handle the continued influx of people: * Banff NP * Dolomites * Iceland * Lofoten * Greenland It's great that people are interested in seeing the world, but I'd say the set of people that love photographing amazing locations and preserving them is much smaller than the set of people that only care about the former. That said, I'm probably more of a contributor to this than I'd care to admit.
- KGIII 9y agoIf you really like something, tell nobody. If you find beautiful waterfalls, don't tell anyone. A great fishing hole? Keep it to yourself. A great diner? Nary a soul should you tell. I'm only slightly exaggerating. In defiance of my above statement, I own this tree and it is my favorite tree. The forestry service cored it and it's at least 220 years old. https://imgur.com/a/c2AVd https://imgur.com/a/c2AVd
- throwanem 9y agoThere's a reason the photos on my site generally aren't geotagged. (Well, aside from the fact that my DSLR's GPS isn't any good.)
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- totally 9y agoIf you're bummed about Broccoli Tree, you might want to make some quality time to spend with your favorite (extant) tree. Nothing lasts forever, folks. It's all going to be over before you know it.
- mark-r 9y agoMost trees last far longer than people. But of course that's only on average.
- chrissnell 9y agoMy most favorite hobby is taking long-distance off-road trips in my old Land Rover Defender with my buddies. We go to places far off the beaten path, taking the smallest and least-used doubletrack trails that we can find. I've written [1][2] about these on some of the popular forums for this stuff and post a lot of photos. People often ask for GPS coordinates of the great campsites that we discover but I never, ever give them out and I'm purposefully vague and sometimes deceptive about their actual location. This story is why. Like the saying goes, call something paradise and kiss it goodbye. I blame the people who publicize these places as much as I blame the people who fuck them up. The assholes of the world cannot be trusted with beauty. They will always defile it or love it to death. [1] http://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/146545-The-Owyhee http://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/146545-The-Owyhee [2] http://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/112686-Northwest-by-Ex-MOD http://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/112686-Northwest-b...
- macintux 9y ago> I blame the people who publicize these places as much as I blame the people who fuck them up I think that's a questionable apportionment of blame.
- campground 9y agoThis is only tangentially related, but the story of Kiidk'yaas, the Golden Spruce, cut down in 1997 as an act of protest, is fascinating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiidk%27yaas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiidk%27yaas https://thetyee.ca/Life/2005/08/03/GoldenSpruce/ https://thetyee.ca/Life/2005/08/03/GoldenSpruce/
- JoblessWonder 9y agoI honestly thought this was going to be about some sort of sorting algorithm I hadn't heard about until it was already outdated.
- sizzzzlerz 9y agoLast year, in Death Valley National Park, in a place called the Racetrack Playa (home to the moving rocks), some excrement-brained jackasses, drove their vehicle onto the playa while it was wet from a recent storm. The tire tracks they left will be visible now for possibly centuries ruining for visitors what was a pristine environment. Staking their naked, honey-coated bodies on top of an army ant anthole might not be enough punishment.
- geoffreyhale 9y ago"Very soon after, it was decided by some authority that the vandalism meant the entire tree had to come down." Huh? Why?
- mastazi 9y agoThe thesis of the article seems to be summed up in the last paragraph: > our collective attention and obsession, amplified by the speed and intensity of the internet & social media, tends to ruin the things we love: authors, musicians, restaurants, actors, beloved movies, vacation spots, artists, democracies and even a tree that became too famous to live. I think this is an important point. Yes public attention and mass media existed before the internet but we all know that modern social media has changed the way notoriety and reputation work. I agree with the author because I think that, for example, in the world we had during the 80's or early 90's Justine Sacco would still have a job and the US Presidential campaign would have been different.
- drawkbox 9y agoJust like The Giving Tree from Shel Silverstein realized. Sometimes we take things too far.
- euske 9y agoDoes anyone look at this from an economic standpoint? I think this is just an (unfair) form of taxation for being famous. Someone or something became too famous. People want a "cut" of the fame (in this case, it was literally the cut, ha ha). It's interesting to think how we can redistribute this type of "wealth" among people. I can think of Twitter replies or blog trackbacks as a primitive way to achieve it, but what can the society/government do? edit: economical -> economic
- dredmorbius 9y agoThat's an interesting question, and plays into some things I've been thinking about across a number of domains. There's the role of fame itself, which is related to, but not the same so far as I see, as power. Both are ordinal -- it's a lot better to be the most famous vs, say, the 10th most famous, in ways that having only, say, $90 rather than $100 isn't. But there's something you're giving up for fame -- particularly privacy and autonomy. There's a risk to it (and there are numerous artists, politicians, and businesspeople who've been attacked, kidnapped, or murdered). In biological evolution, there was a stage at which the first carnivorous organisms appeared. Before that, it was pretty much OK to let it all hang out, and just sort of slime around on the seafloor, munching on plants. Afterward, defences (and some offences) like shells and pincers and teeth emerged. You needed to protect yourself. And while such defenses still exist, most animals now don't have heavy body armor. It's too heavy, and too cumbersome. There's hide and fur, tails to swat away annoying things. But also social habits -- the grooming behaviours of primates and other animals in particular. "I'll pick parasites off your back if you'll pick them off of mine." Standards and norms of behaviour. The problem of too much fame, especially for lifeforms which aren't aware of the problem or cannot defend themselves (or move or hide, as with trees, hell, even rock formations), is one that's been around for a while. It definitely pre-dates the Internet as mulitiple posts here note. I've run across items about geotagged images of rhinoceroses, or of rare plants, or other treasures. There's this item from a few days ago: http://e360.yale.edu/features/unnatural-surveillance-how-online-data-is-putting-species-at-risk http://e360.yale.edu/features/unnatural-surveillance-how-onl... As for how to deal with the problem socially, I think that may be the role of taboo. That's taking the matter beyond economics to an extent, as taboo puts an infinite cost or price to doing a thing.
- leyth 9y agoThis looks to be intentional. I hope those vandals get caught.
- briantakita 9y agoThis is an apt metaphor over how, when hegemonic, the cultural forces of Globalism cut away the branches of local culture, leaving a stump representing what the local culture once was. Of course, if this were an act of coppicing, it's a renewal of sorts, and the tree will once again grow, more robust than ever, as the Phoenix rises from it's ashes.
- estomagordo 9y agoMother fucker.
- poorman 9y agoPrime example of the observer effect.