5 ms·

Are there legitimate other views of depression?

DanBC 9y ago
Some psychologists reject any hint of medical modal, and say it's only social factors. (that's not what I think. But these psychologists are reasonably common.)
- Domenic_S 9y ago
  Ok, citation needed on that one. Some crackpots think that way, sure, but "reasonably common"?
  - DanBC 9y ago
    there's a whole organisation for them in the UK. All the "mad in america" stuff: https://www.madinamerica.com/about-us/ https://www.madinamerica.com/about-us/ > one that emphasizes psychosocial care, and de-emphasizes the use of psychiatric medications, particularly over the long-term. https://twitter.com/ClinpsychLucy/status/918029768951500801 https://twitter.com/ClinpsychLucy/status/918029768951500801 > It's not about 'illness.' It's about being human. http://peerlyhuman.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/why-i-oppose-world-mental-health-day.html?spref=fb&m=1 http://peerlyhuman.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/why-i-oppose-world... … #WorldMentalHealthDay #WMHD17 https://twitter.com/Shrink_at_Large/status/917655214156529664 https://twitter.com/Shrink_at_Large/status/91765521415652966... > on World Mental Health Day, Let's remember structural inequalities and oppressions are behind many/most mental health problems https://twitter.com/AnneCooke14 https://twitter.com/AnneCooke14 https://twitter.com/DrDJWilde https://twitter.com/DrDJWilde https://twitter.com/peterkinderman https://twitter.com/peterkinderman etc etc.
    - Domenic_S 9y ago
      I mean, you said they reject ANY HINT of medical modal, and say it's ONLY social factors. I didn't see that there. I don't know if you've been through the system or not, but in the US MUCH of the time you tell your GP you've got the blues, and they say oh hey well take this zoloft/xanax and see how you feel. On the first visit. It happened to me, it happened to my wife, it's happened to more friends than I can count, all of us on great, private insurance. Anyway, that's the kind of thing mad in america is talking about, not ANY HINT of biology.
      - DanBC 9y ago
        I haven't been through the US system. I currently work in the bureaucratic end of the English system. I meet very many people who have been through, or are going through, treatment for mental ill health. This includes all settings, from secure (forensic) units, through regular MH hospitals, or community treatment, to primary care. It includes common "mild to moderate" illnesses and severe and enduring mental illness, and also personality disorder. I talk to a wide range of mental health professionals: health care assistants, registered nurses, AMHPs, doctors (consultants, T3 and other junior doctors), speech and language therapists, occupational therapists, art therapists, psychological staff. I talk to people from band 4 (NHS England agenda for change pay banding) through to band 8d, and also directors. I'm a member of the South of England Collaborative for Mental Health Quality and Patient Safety Improvement. https://iqmentalhealth.co.uk/ https://iqmentalhealth.co.uk/ I'm a member of the Q community. https://q.health.org.uk/ https://q.health.org.uk/ Being polite: I know more about this than you do. The reason I linked to specific twitter accounts is so that you can ask them what their opinion is. You don't have to take my word for it - maybe I would distort their views. > you tell your GP I was very clearly only talking about psychologists. I wasn't talking about GPs. If you had asked me about GPs I would have spoken about the frustration I have that they rely too much on medication, and not enough on talking therapy. Even though in England talking therapy is free and easily available.
ada1981 9y ago
I believe depression often involves some developmental or shock traumas that prevent or inhibit the full feeling of emotions. The idea that depression is "anger directed inward" was a useful tool for me. The view that we can release these old traumas and form new pathways and responses helped me heal after a diagnosis of schizophrenia and bipolar (which included suicidal depression and panic attacks, anxiety).
- thanatropism 9y ago
  Do you believe in Austrian economics or Young Earth Creationism too? I mean, it's within your rights...
  - betenoire 9y ago
    This is too dismissive, I think you are reading too much into words like "release". Learning to love yourself and to let go of things gives you a new perspective. A new perspective leads to new thinking and new experiences, and we all know our brains are plastic and are constantly changing. You are the fool, not he.
    - ada1981 9y ago
      For me the experience often went like: 1) notice I'm depressed 2) create space to feel emotions more and use something like Breathwork to loosen up my ego enough to get out of my default mode of shutting down / numbing out. 3) having a deeply personal / visionary like experience of seeing old events in my life or relationships or choosing to forgive someone. 4) am actually emotional release, like crying and feeling like I was able to be back in my body vs being stuck in a painful loop in my head.
  - ada1981 9y ago
    What I know is that I was diagnosed with bipolar / depression after being suicidal and was offered nothing but medication from Western Psychiatry. My entire life up until that point had been based around avoiding emotions. From chasing fame, money, success,drugs, sex, criticizing, creating drama, etc. At the time I was consulting for a Peter Thiel backed startup focusing on finding alternative cures for western diagnosis. I took what the doctors there were showing me and began to look at alternative perspectives. What I found was shocking. That antidepressants didn't really work and outcomes for most people were pretty terrible in general. The view of depression that is it is unfelt anger allowed me to begin to make more space to feel anger vs. stuffing it down or projecting it onto others. There has been a little research into this that doesn't contradict it. I followed the experience of anger back inside and it opened up an entirely new part of my mind. I was able to see past events in my life where I was hurt and scared and shut down. And how I learned to supress my emotions. Through a combination of psychedelics, breathwork and NARM therapy, I learned how to stay with my emotions and how to make space to heal older traumas when I was feeling triggered or overwhelmed. I was able to be with even more extreme states like paranoia or psychosis and every time I'd go to the heart of the emotional experience, in the moment I'd find some unprocessed event from my life that needed attention. So, yeah. That way of thinking was very useful for me and was supported by a variety of resources that helped me along the way. Including some psychiatrists, doctors, and therapists. I take no medication and now have access to a very deep, soft, warm and loving center in myself that I had never experienced before. If something happens (like my grandmother dying last month), and I noticed I'm feeling depresssed, I use those same tools and get closer to the hurt or pain vs my old default of numbing, avoidance, depression or mania. I'm an N of 1, of course but I've been able to help other people do the same and this approach feels healthier and more useful than purely symptom management. We are all unique, and I certainly have access to some exotic states of consciousness, but as I said I feel connected, loving, content, solid and welcoming of all emotions including love and happiness. Happy to discuss more privately if you prefer: a@175g.com Cheers.
55555 9y ago
Depression is often caused by life sucking. When depression is amply explained by this model, you become depressed when both (a) the present is unenjoyable AND (b) you have no hope that the future will be better. I know that this is sometimes the case because I've struggled with depression on-and-off and it tracks 1:1 with my physical health and ability to live a normal, enjoyable life.

Some psychologists reject any hint of medical modal, and say it's only social factors. (that's not what I think. But these psychologists are reasonably common.)

Domenic_S 9y ago
Ok, citation needed on that one. Some crackpots think that way, sure, but "reasonably common"?
- DanBC 9y ago
  there's a whole organisation for them in the UK. All the "mad in america" stuff: https://www.madinamerica.com/about-us/ https://www.madinamerica.com/about-us/ > one that emphasizes psychosocial care, and de-emphasizes the use of psychiatric medications, particularly over the long-term. https://twitter.com/ClinpsychLucy/status/918029768951500801 https://twitter.com/ClinpsychLucy/status/918029768951500801 > It's not about 'illness.' It's about being human. http://peerlyhuman.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/why-i-oppose-world-mental-health-day.html?spref=fb&m=1 http://peerlyhuman.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/why-i-oppose-world... … #WorldMentalHealthDay #WMHD17 https://twitter.com/Shrink_at_Large/status/917655214156529664 https://twitter.com/Shrink_at_Large/status/91765521415652966... > on World Mental Health Day, Let's remember structural inequalities and oppressions are behind many/most mental health problems https://twitter.com/AnneCooke14 https://twitter.com/AnneCooke14 https://twitter.com/DrDJWilde https://twitter.com/DrDJWilde https://twitter.com/peterkinderman https://twitter.com/peterkinderman etc etc.
  - Domenic_S 9y ago
    I mean, you said they reject ANY HINT of medical modal, and say it's ONLY social factors. I didn't see that there. I don't know if you've been through the system or not, but in the US MUCH of the time you tell your GP you've got the blues, and they say oh hey well take this zoloft/xanax and see how you feel. On the first visit. It happened to me, it happened to my wife, it's happened to more friends than I can count, all of us on great, private insurance. Anyway, that's the kind of thing mad in america is talking about, not ANY HINT of biology.
    - DanBC 9y ago
      I haven't been through the US system. I currently work in the bureaucratic end of the English system. I meet very many people who have been through, or are going through, treatment for mental ill health. This includes all settings, from secure (forensic) units, through regular MH hospitals, or community treatment, to primary care. It includes common "mild to moderate" illnesses and severe and enduring mental illness, and also personality disorder. I talk to a wide range of mental health professionals: health care assistants, registered nurses, AMHPs, doctors (consultants, T3 and other junior doctors), speech and language therapists, occupational therapists, art therapists, psychological staff. I talk to people from band 4 (NHS England agenda for change pay banding) through to band 8d, and also directors. I'm a member of the South of England Collaborative for Mental Health Quality and Patient Safety Improvement. https://iqmentalhealth.co.uk/ https://iqmentalhealth.co.uk/ I'm a member of the Q community. https://q.health.org.uk/ https://q.health.org.uk/ Being polite: I know more about this than you do. The reason I linked to specific twitter accounts is so that you can ask them what their opinion is. You don't have to take my word for it - maybe I would distort their views. > you tell your GP I was very clearly only talking about psychologists. I wasn't talking about GPs. If you had asked me about GPs I would have spoken about the frustration I have that they rely too much on medication, and not enough on talking therapy. Even though in England talking therapy is free and easily available.

ada1981 9y ago

I believe depression often involves some developmental or shock traumas that prevent or inhibit the full feeling of emotions. The idea that depression is "anger directed inward" was a useful tool for me. The view that we can release these old traumas and form new pathways and responses helped me heal after a diagnosis of schizophrenia and bipolar (which included suicidal depression and panic attacks, anxiety).

thanatropism 9y ago
Do you believe in Austrian economics or Young Earth Creationism too? I mean, it's within your rights...
- betenoire 9y ago
  This is too dismissive, I think you are reading too much into words like "release". Learning to love yourself and to let go of things gives you a new perspective. A new perspective leads to new thinking and new experiences, and we all know our brains are plastic and are constantly changing. You are the fool, not he.
  - ada1981 9y ago
    For me the experience often went like: 1) notice I'm depressed 2) create space to feel emotions more and use something like Breathwork to loosen up my ego enough to get out of my default mode of shutting down / numbing out. 3) having a deeply personal / visionary like experience of seeing old events in my life or relationships or choosing to forgive someone. 4) am actually emotional release, like crying and feeling like I was able to be back in my body vs being stuck in a painful loop in my head.
- ada1981 9y ago
  What I know is that I was diagnosed with bipolar / depression after being suicidal and was offered nothing but medication from Western Psychiatry. My entire life up until that point had been based around avoiding emotions. From chasing fame, money, success,drugs, sex, criticizing, creating drama, etc. At the time I was consulting for a Peter Thiel backed startup focusing on finding alternative cures for western diagnosis. I took what the doctors there were showing me and began to look at alternative perspectives. What I found was shocking. That antidepressants didn't really work and outcomes for most people were pretty terrible in general. The view of depression that is it is unfelt anger allowed me to begin to make more space to feel anger vs. stuffing it down or projecting it onto others. There has been a little research into this that doesn't contradict it. I followed the experience of anger back inside and it opened up an entirely new part of my mind. I was able to see past events in my life where I was hurt and scared and shut down. And how I learned to supress my emotions. Through a combination of psychedelics, breathwork and NARM therapy, I learned how to stay with my emotions and how to make space to heal older traumas when I was feeling triggered or overwhelmed. I was able to be with even more extreme states like paranoia or psychosis and every time I'd go to the heart of the emotional experience, in the moment I'd find some unprocessed event from my life that needed attention. So, yeah. That way of thinking was very useful for me and was supported by a variety of resources that helped me along the way. Including some psychiatrists, doctors, and therapists. I take no medication and now have access to a very deep, soft, warm and loving center in myself that I had never experienced before. If something happens (like my grandmother dying last month), and I noticed I'm feeling depresssed, I use those same tools and get closer to the hurt or pain vs my old default of numbing, avoidance, depression or mania. I'm an N of 1, of course but I've been able to help other people do the same and this approach feels healthier and more useful than purely symptom management. We are all unique, and I certainly have access to some exotic states of consciousness, but as I said I feel connected, loving, content, solid and welcoming of all emotions including love and happiness. Happy to discuss more privately if you prefer: a@175g.com Cheers.

55555 9y ago

Depression is often caused by life sucking. When depression is amply explained by this model, you become depressed when both (a) the present is unenjoyable AND (b) you have no hope that the future will be better. I know that this is sometimes the case because I've struggled with depression on-and-off and it tracks 1:1 with my physical health and ability to live a normal, enjoyable life.