4 ms·

We need to make them a state finally and never allow this to happen again. For people putting this on budgets/PR, lots of states are in dire situations with bu

We need to make them a state finally and never allow this to happen again. For people putting this on budgets/PR, lots of states are in dire situations with budgets/funds and healthcare on the mainland. If you swapped a few states with Puerto Rico in the "big water" you'd have the same exact situation. Many states are in the red. A country should stand up for their citizens in emergencies and tragedies and that includes Puerto Rico.

tiggybear 9y ago
lol. Never happen again. Medicine as for-profit and insurance companies dictating what procedures you get. Pick one.
whathaschanged 9y ago
Forcing their government to surrender control and become a state goes against the democratic process. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2095366 https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2095366
- drawkbox 9y ago
  They recently voted to become a state. Certain groups don't want that to happen for some reason. A referendum on the political status of Puerto Rico was held in Puerto Rico on June 11, 2017. The referendum had three options: becoming a state of the United States, independence/free association, or maintaining the current territorial status. Those who voted overwhelmingly chose statehood by 97% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_status_referendum,_2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_status_referendum...
  - fastball 9y ago
    "We want to become a state now that we've run our territory into the ground".
  - crusso 9y ago
    I would think that the rest of the sentence that you deleted is important to understanding the vote. ; turnout, however, was 23%, a historically low figure.[3] This figure is attributed to a boycott led by the pro-status quo PPD party.[4]
    - drawkbox 9y ago
      Well voting for president in the US only 57% vote of available voters[1], even lower in non presidential votes or midterms at 40% [2], so is that also not valid since everyone doesn't vote? People choose to vote, if people don't vote to have their say that is their own bad. In the US, if only 57% of people vote, you could say our president is only elected by less than about 30% of the people with the popular vote, half the eligible voters or about a third of the country. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_the_United_States_presidential_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_the_United_St... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_midterm_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_midterm_election
      - crusso 9y ago
        The rules of US elections are fairly well spelled-out, so low turn-out results are not contested. In this case, Congress would need to make the decision that is in keeping with the "people of Puerto Rico". If you read further in the referendum link you posted, there are a number of reasons why the referendum was boycotted. I doubt that Congress would want to jump into the middle of such an ambiguous situation and declare Puerto Rico a state by fiat.
      - tertius 9y ago
        How is this relevant to an actual boycott?
        drawkbox 9y ago
        We are talking low turn out votes, even in the US we have low turnout. People boycott the whole system here and don't vote at all. So you are arguing that our results aren't correct because people stopped voting? If you are saying that because PR had a boycott and some didn't vote that the vote is a fraud, then you could say the same about ANY vote in the US because people boycott or don't vote because they don't believe in the system or think it is rigged etc or many other reasons. That is why you have to vote, boycotting votes is not smart, probably the worst use of a boycott ever as it takes your power away. Usually boycotts are to gain power i.e. not purchasing from a certain company. Boycotting a vote isn't even worth mentioning, it is just not smart.
  - bradyd 9y ago
    You left out the rest of the sentence: "Those who voted overwhelmingly chose statehood by 97%; turnout, however, was 23%, a historically low figure."
  - comex 9y ago
    Note that the percentage was that high only because of a boycott by the anti-statehood faction. But I’d expect that any attempt to actually grant statehood would be preceded by a new, binding referendum that wouldn’t be boycotted - or at least elections.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - jeffbax 9y ago
    This is the same misdirected claim repeated over and over about Catalan, but turnout is boycotted by those who do not want to secede. The politics of integrating Puerto Rico are likely impossible to make it happen anyway.
  - rayiner 9y ago
    They have had several referendums over the years, and none have yielded a majority for statehood. This most recent referendum was in favor of statehood, but had less than 23% turnout. Yes, the low turnout was because the parties opposed to statehood boycotted the referendum. But anyone who boycotted the referendum would almost by definition be someone who was going to vote against statehood. The 2012 referendum, in contrast, had 78% turnout. 46% voted to retain the current arrangement, and another 21% voted for either free association or full independence (i.e. increased sovereignty--the opposite of statehood).
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  How would becoming a state (and gaining senators, congressmen, and electoral votes) be a "surrender" of control? Your article doesn't seem to support this contention at all.
  - infecto 9y ago
    Perhaps because PR does not want it? I think that is the concern, PR basically voted it down with their low turnout this last time around.
    - dvdhnt 9y ago
      > PR basically voted it down with their low turnout this last time around. That's not how voting works, though...
      - maxerickson 9y ago
        Lots of voting systems have quorum rules. I'm commenting on "voting" in general there, not specifically the referendum. But even with 100% turnout, there's no legal mechanism for Puerto Rico to force Congress to act.
- kafkaesq 9y ago
  Though downvoted into submission, the above point is perfectly valid. A better stance to take might be: "We need to reiterate to the citizens of Puerto Rico that they are perfectly free to opt for statehood, or independence at any time."
chisleu 9y ago
I think this is the intended effect. They operate in a special grey area created by generations past to great advantage. Then they have corruption and mismanagement in their politics until their economic wellness is a dumpster fire. They literally did this to themselves by selling bonds that they can't pay back that they are obligated "before even necessary services are provided for the citizens". It's sad that they abuse their tax free status and made themselves into a tax haven that is abused without actually bringing much income into the country, then changed tax regulations and increased deficit spending before being forced into austerity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_government-debt_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_government-debt_c... I hope they will allow Congress to incorporate them into the USA as a state after this.
- kingkawn 9y ago
  Who you talkin about “they?” The poor and working class people dying of preventable disease because the medical system is being allowed to collapse?
  - chisleu 9y ago
    If you believe in democracy, than the poor and working people voted for assholes that screw them. They also voted to keep their special status as income tax free rather than becoming a state even though it would have helped to prevent the catastrophe that was PR's entirely absent emergency preparedness.
    - kingkawn 9y ago
      take one look at the manipulation of the political systems in us and pr by monied interests and tell me its poor people’s fault.
- flatline 9y ago
  For an alternative view on who is to blame: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/puerto-rico-debt-2017-10 https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/puerto-... A lot of the problem is their lack of autonomy. They are dependent on the federal government yet don't have the power of a US state. It's not so much corruption as desperation that drove them to this point.

tiggybear 9y ago

lol. Never happen again. Medicine as for-profit and insurance companies dictating what procedures you get. Pick one.

whathaschanged 9y ago

Forcing their government to surrender control and become a state goes against the democratic process. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2095366 https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2095366

drawkbox 9y ago
They recently voted to become a state. Certain groups don't want that to happen for some reason. A referendum on the political status of Puerto Rico was held in Puerto Rico on June 11, 2017. The referendum had three options: becoming a state of the United States, independence/free association, or maintaining the current territorial status. Those who voted overwhelmingly chose statehood by 97% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_status_referendum,_2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_status_referendum...
- fastball 9y ago
  "We want to become a state now that we've run our territory into the ground".
- crusso 9y ago
  I would think that the rest of the sentence that you deleted is important to understanding the vote. ; turnout, however, was 23%, a historically low figure.[3] This figure is attributed to a boycott led by the pro-status quo PPD party.[4]
  - drawkbox 9y ago
    Well voting for president in the US only 57% vote of available voters[1], even lower in non presidential votes or midterms at 40% [2], so is that also not valid since everyone doesn't vote? People choose to vote, if people don't vote to have their say that is their own bad. In the US, if only 57% of people vote, you could say our president is only elected by less than about 30% of the people with the popular vote, half the eligible voters or about a third of the country. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_the_United_States_presidential_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_the_United_St... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_midterm_election https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_midterm_election
    - crusso 9y ago
      The rules of US elections are fairly well spelled-out, so low turn-out results are not contested. In this case, Congress would need to make the decision that is in keeping with the "people of Puerto Rico". If you read further in the referendum link you posted, there are a number of reasons why the referendum was boycotted. I doubt that Congress would want to jump into the middle of such an ambiguous situation and declare Puerto Rico a state by fiat.
    - tertius 9y ago
      How is this relevant to an actual boycott?
      - drawkbox 9y ago
        We are talking low turn out votes, even in the US we have low turnout. People boycott the whole system here and don't vote at all. So you are arguing that our results aren't correct because people stopped voting? If you are saying that because PR had a boycott and some didn't vote that the vote is a fraud, then you could say the same about ANY vote in the US because people boycott or don't vote because they don't believe in the system or think it is rigged etc or many other reasons. That is why you have to vote, boycotting votes is not smart, probably the worst use of a boycott ever as it takes your power away. Usually boycotts are to gain power i.e. not purchasing from a certain company. Boycotting a vote isn't even worth mentioning, it is just not smart.
- bradyd 9y ago
  You left out the rest of the sentence: "Those who voted overwhelmingly chose statehood by 97%; turnout, however, was 23%, a historically low figure."
- comex 9y ago
  Note that the percentage was that high only because of a boycott by the anti-statehood faction. But I’d expect that any attempt to actually grant statehood would be preceded by a new, binding referendum that wouldn’t be boycotted - or at least elections.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- jeffbax 9y ago
  This is the same misdirected claim repeated over and over about Catalan, but turnout is boycotted by those who do not want to secede. The politics of integrating Puerto Rico are likely impossible to make it happen anyway.
- rayiner 9y ago
  They have had several referendums over the years, and none have yielded a majority for statehood. This most recent referendum was in favor of statehood, but had less than 23% turnout. Yes, the low turnout was because the parties opposed to statehood boycotted the referendum. But anyone who boycotted the referendum would almost by definition be someone who was going to vote against statehood. The 2012 referendum, in contrast, had 78% turnout. 46% voted to retain the current arrangement, and another 21% voted for either free association or full independence (i.e. increased sovereignty--the opposite of statehood).
ceejayoz 9y ago
How would becoming a state (and gaining senators, congressmen, and electoral votes) be a "surrender" of control? Your article doesn't seem to support this contention at all.
- infecto 9y ago
  Perhaps because PR does not want it? I think that is the concern, PR basically voted it down with their low turnout this last time around.
  - dvdhnt 9y ago
    > PR basically voted it down with their low turnout this last time around. That's not how voting works, though...
    - maxerickson 9y ago
      Lots of voting systems have quorum rules. I'm commenting on "voting" in general there, not specifically the referendum. But even with 100% turnout, there's no legal mechanism for Puerto Rico to force Congress to act.
kafkaesq 9y ago
Though downvoted into submission, the above point is perfectly valid. A better stance to take might be: "We need to reiterate to the citizens of Puerto Rico that they are perfectly free to opt for statehood, or independence at any time."

chisleu 9y ago

I think this is the intended effect. They operate in a special grey area created by generations past to great advantage. Then they have corruption and mismanagement in their politics until their economic wellness is a dumpster fire. They literally did this to themselves by selling bonds that they can't pay back that they are obligated "before even necessary services are provided for the citizens". It's sad that they abuse their tax free status and made themselves into a tax haven that is abused without actually bringing much income into the country, then changed tax regulations and increased deficit spending before being forced into austerity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_government-debt_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_government-debt_c... I hope they will allow Congress to incorporate them into the USA as a state after this.

kingkawn 9y ago
Who you talkin about “they?” The poor and working class people dying of preventable disease because the medical system is being allowed to collapse?
- chisleu 9y ago
  If you believe in democracy, than the poor and working people voted for assholes that screw them. They also voted to keep their special status as income tax free rather than becoming a state even though it would have helped to prevent the catastrophe that was PR's entirely absent emergency preparedness.
  - kingkawn 9y ago
    take one look at the manipulation of the political systems in us and pr by monied interests and tell me its poor people’s fault.
flatline 9y ago
For an alternative view on who is to blame: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/puerto-rico-debt-2017-10 https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/puerto-... A lot of the problem is their lack of autonomy. They are dependent on the federal government yet don't have the power of a US state. It's not so much corruption as desperation that drove them to this point.