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This got me into a rabbit hole on Wikipedia about where all the peoples of Japan came from, and what makes the Ainu indigenous. If an indigenous people is the

This got me into a rabbit hole on Wikipedia about where all the peoples of Japan came from, and what makes the Ainu indigenous. If an indigenous people is the first to settle, not sure the Ainu are clear winners. Lots of dispute about early population dynamics of Japan. It seems the Ainu are considered indigenous because some have maintained their culture instead of assimilating into the larger group, which is unlike the Jomon and Yayoi people who many believe are the ancestors of modern Japanese people.

masklinn 9y ago
The Ryukyuan people also probably deserve (some of) the title, genetically they are closer to Ainu (and Jomon people) than to "Yamato" japanese.
- deleted 9y ago
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panglott 9y ago
Surely the Yamato people are indigenous to southern Honshu. And surely the Ainu are indigenous to Hokkaido. Certainly the Ainu are not not indigenous to Japan. "Indigenous" is frequently used in a context where a people's rights to their ancestral lands are threatened. It is an assertion of their claim to places where they are threatened. In the case of the Ainu, much of Japanese colonization and colonialism was justified with the ideology that the Ainu were "dying race" or "disappearing". This was acompanied by the usual policies of social oppression and linguicide—taking them away from their parents to Japanese-only schools and beating or shaming them if they dared to speak the language of their parents.
- Steko 9y ago
  > Surely the Yamato people are indigenous to southern Honshu Sort of. It's worth clarifying that "indigenous peoples" is a specific legalistic term which connotes more (less?) than just "indigenous". In that context the "Yamato people" as the dominant cultural group in Japan typically do not qualify as an "indigenous people". Confusing matters further, "indigenous" itself is often used in the same, more restrictive context.
SllX 9y ago
As I understand the Ainu and the literature regarding them, they are considered an indigenous population rather than the indigenous population, not just to northern Honshu, but Hokkaido and also Choka/Sakhalin/Karafuto.
deleted 9y ago
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Steko 9y ago
> If an indigenous people is the first to settle Not what it means.
- jpatokal 9y ago
  Japan consists of islands, everybody there came from somewhere else. This is true in Australia and the US as well, the Aboriginals and Native Americans just came several thousand years before the next waves of settlement.
  - Steko 9y ago
    I'm not sure what your point is but I'm just pointing out he's extrapolating from an incorrect definition. I'm certainly not claiming that 'indigenous' means their ancestors literally sprouted from that ground.
    - hacking_again 9y ago
      Go on then, enlighten us with the definition, and failing that, the most precise definition you can give.
- antonvs 9y ago
  That basically is what it means, or at least, it's a primary defining characteristic. There are some other relevant characteristics, which make the definition a bit fuzzy. The biggest one is that they need to have retained some identifiable aspects of their culture in the face of subsequent settlement. But to a first approximation, first to settle - or at least being among the first to settle - is the primary basis for determining indigenousness.

masklinn 9y ago

The Ryukyuan people also probably deserve (some of) the title, genetically they are closer to Ainu (and Jomon people) than to "Yamato" japanese.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

panglott 9y ago

Surely the Yamato people are indigenous to southern Honshu. And surely the Ainu are indigenous to Hokkaido. Certainly the Ainu are not not indigenous to Japan. "Indigenous" is frequently used in a context where a people's rights to their ancestral lands are threatened. It is an assertion of their claim to places where they are threatened. In the case of the Ainu, much of Japanese colonization and colonialism was justified with the ideology that the Ainu were "dying race" or "disappearing". This was acompanied by the usual policies of social oppression and linguicide—taking them away from their parents to Japanese-only schools and beating or shaming them if they dared to speak the language of their parents.

Steko 9y ago
> Surely the Yamato people are indigenous to southern Honshu Sort of. It's worth clarifying that "indigenous peoples" is a specific legalistic term which connotes more (less?) than just "indigenous". In that context the "Yamato people" as the dominant cultural group in Japan typically do not qualify as an "indigenous people". Confusing matters further, "indigenous" itself is often used in the same, more restrictive context.

SllX 9y ago

As I understand the Ainu and the literature regarding them, they are considered an indigenous population rather than the indigenous population, not just to northern Honshu, but Hokkaido and also Choka/Sakhalin/Karafuto.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

Steko 9y ago

> If an indigenous people is the first to settle Not what it means.

jpatokal 9y ago
Japan consists of islands, everybody there came from somewhere else. This is true in Australia and the US as well, the Aboriginals and Native Americans just came several thousand years before the next waves of settlement.
- Steko 9y ago
  I'm not sure what your point is but I'm just pointing out he's extrapolating from an incorrect definition. I'm certainly not claiming that 'indigenous' means their ancestors literally sprouted from that ground.
  - hacking_again 9y ago
    Go on then, enlighten us with the definition, and failing that, the most precise definition you can give.
antonvs 9y ago
That basically is what it means, or at least, it's a primary defining characteristic. There are some other relevant characteristics, which make the definition a bit fuzzy. The biggest one is that they need to have retained some identifiable aspects of their culture in the face of subsequent settlement. But to a first approximation, first to settle - or at least being among the first to settle - is the primary basis for determining indigenousness.