5 ms·

I'm in a the category that you'd call wealthy or rich. I have grabbed three quick images to show you why I moved further away - after spending my whole life in

by KGIII 9y ago

I'm in a the category that you'd call wealthy or rich. I have grabbed three quick images to show you why I moved further away - after spending my whole life in urban areas. https://imgur.com/a/NXaxm https://imgur.com/a/NXaxm

phil21 9y ago
That's not typical suburbia. I completely understand wanting to get out and into nature where you can't see your neighbors. Makes sense, not for me, but it's totally logical and easy to understand different strokes for different folks. The cookie-cutter typical suburbs of most mid-tier US cities though? I cannot imagine a worse combination of all the bad things from rural living, combined with all the bad things from urban living. Utterly soulless, and I feel actively depressed if I must spend more than a day or two stuck in one. My personal theory is that the social strife we are increasingly seeing in the US is due to the breakdown in the sense of community nationwide. I posit that suburbinification was by far the largest driver of this. This is bad enough, but when you realize 90% of the suburbs in the US are unsustainable subsidies for middle class folks it gets even harder to swallow.
- KGIII 9y ago
  Yeah, I did the suburban life for a while. Not quite urban, but a single occupancy with a fence that might have been ten feet from the sides of the building and maybe a thousand square feet of back yard. Getting out was great. It's not realistic for many, but it has been fantastic. The comment mentioned moving further afield, beyond suburbia, so I wasn't entirely sure what was meant. I'm about 25 miles from a village with 1200 residents. I'm in a pn unincorporated township that has six residences and a couple of hunting camps. Once the locals (I call them the village people) get to know and accept you, I've never seen a greater sense of community. I suspect you're onto something with the sense of community. Even the unpopular people here, of which there are a few - some self-selecting for the role, wouldn't be allowed to go hungry or homeless. In my township, there is no crime and everyone knows where my keys are, just in case the door is locked. In the village? Well, there are minor property crimes at the rate of maybe two a month. Most of those can be attributed to tourists. There are only 1200 residents but they may swell to ten times that many people during the height if tourist season. The sense of community is not something I'd experienced elsewhere. Ever. Even as a child, my family moved a lot due to my father being in the military. It was unfamiliar feeling and very disconcerting at times - but it is something I've come to cherish. This is the first time I've really felt at home. You know you're an accepted member of the community when they are telling you the gossip and it is no longer about you. It has its charms. I don't have words for it, but the sense of community really does have an overall effect on the people. There is true compassion, even when it isn't a crisis. It doesn't take a flood to make people help their neighbors. I strongly suspect you're not something with that.
- amyjess 9y ago
  > The cookie-cutter typical suburbs of most mid-tier US cities though? I cannot imagine a worse combination of all the bad things from rural living, combined with all the bad things from urban living. Utterly soulless, and I feel actively depressed if I must spend more than a day or two stuck in one. And for me, a "cookie-cutter" suburb like Plano, TX is utter paradise. We're all different. I don't believe in a soul, and I've never understood what anybody has meant when they complain about something being "soulless". And I've never been interested in being part of a community. I want to live in a single-family home with a yard, little undeveloped space, six-lane arterials on a grid, strip malls at every intersection, at least one hole-in-the-wall Asian restaurant in every strip mall (Plano is a very ethnically-diverse cookie-cutter suburb), etc. That's my dream town.
icebraining 9y ago
That doesn't explain much. I'm currently living in a quite central area of Brussels. Times are on bicycle. 2m from my house: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Ixelles_%28Bruxelles%29_Les_%C3%A9tangs.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Ixelles_... 15m from it: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Bruxelles_-_%C3%89tang_-_Bois_de_la_Cambre_2.JPG/1200px-Bruxelles_-_%C3%89tang_-_Bois_de_la_Cambre_2.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Br... http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Lw2dPOfarIk/VjD8K-tXApI/AAAAAAAAOyU/hmh-FOubdA4/s1600/P1150542.JPG http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Lw2dPOfarIk/VjD8K-tXApI/AAAAAAAAOy... 25m from it: https://i1.wp.com/www.zonienwoud.be/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/beukenkathedraal_2.jpg https://i1.wp.com/www.zonienwoud.be/wp-content/uploads/2015/... https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1369/5154609222_5837e11ab5_b.jpg https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1369/5154609222_5837e11ab5_b.j... https://urbanfragment.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/forc3aat-de-soignes-close-to-brussels-belgium-by-vincent-brassinne.jpg https://urbanfragment.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/forc3aat-d...
- KGIII 9y ago
  25 minutes on a bicycle will probably just barely get you to the neighbor's house, though you can take the trail through the woods. What you're not seeing is I've got about 3200 acres of mountainous woodland. I can have a few hundred people on my lawn, complete with live music, and the nearest neighbor will only hear it because they joined us. That's the difference. I'm more likely to see a moose than I am to see a stranger. And that's why I moved away from urban/suburban areas. As near as I can tell, more wealthy/rich people are doing much the same. In the ten years since I bought the property, the cost of land has skyrocketed. People are buying remote and moving well past suburbia. Comparatively speaking, I bought the property at a very low price. What I paid ~$500/acre for is now three to four times the price - in just a decade.
  - cr0sh 9y ago
    I see a downside to this for everyone else; I'm not faulting you because it may have been this way before you got your land... ...but now that you (and everyone else) owns that land - no one else (unless you let them, or there's some kind of government-mandated form of easement to allow for it) can use that land: They can't hunt on it, they can't fish on it, they can't go off-roading on it - they can't even hike on it and enjoy nature. So in other words, it's a classic case of "I've got mine..." I don't blame you for this - if I had the wherewithal I'd do the same. Heck, as it is (for my budget), my wife and I have been talking about moving out of the city and on to a plot of land (much smaller - even with the cheapest land we couldn't afford 3200 acres - not to mention any upkeep or whatnot, nor taxes). Not that we dislike our neighbors or anything, we're just getting to a point not liking the bustle of the city as much. Our greater concern is more of "how long will it take to reach a hospital for an emergency" (well, that and high-speed internet access - but even that is becoming both less of an issue, as well as something I am beginning to wonder if it might be better to be without). But more and more, these spaces which used to be public property are becoming private, and rarely do the owners (whether individuals or corporations) allow for any others to set foot on the property, at least legally. I guess, though, that this isn't anything new.
corpMaverick 9y ago
The firewall is blocking the image. I imagine it is a beautiful sight of nature. I also love nature. But I would rather have density AND protected natural areas that anybody can enjoy than having a beautiful natural sight in my backyard. Sure the beautiful backyard is nice for me, but it is unsustainable if too many people have one.
- KGIII 9y ago
  I don't want to derail the thread. I'm outside Rangeley, Maine. If you would like some pictures, I'd be more than happy to email you a few. It is absolutely beautiful. It was comparatively inexpensive and you can hike all day and still be on my property. At the rate similar land is selling, and the single occupancy homes going in, it appears that more monied people are moving in. However, a million dollars will buy you a couple hundred acres here AND allow you to build a nice house on it. If you're patient, you can get the land much cheaper. I bought during the recession and the land was auctioned by a paper company that was going out of business. I pretty much stole it.
felipemnoa 9y ago
Meh. To each their own. Beauty is on the eye of the beholder. The giant forests of steel, glass and concrete in Manhattan are quite beautiful to me, along with everything else that comes with it: It's bridges, the subway, the people, its restaurants and bars, etc. etc.
- KGIII 9y ago
  Indeed, it is entirely subjective. I speak only for me and can only share observable trends. I do see the appeal of urban living and I can find beauty in the structure. What I really appreciate is the combination of aesthetics, tranquility, and privacy. On the subject of privacy, I am able to be more private in my location than I am if I lived in a city. However, the trade off is anonymity. I can be much more anonymous in an urban area. Definitions follow: I can pee on my lawn and nobody will know. If I pee on someone else's lawn, they will know exactly who I am. I'm not a hermit, I have an active social life and a girlfriend. But, I do enjoy the solitude and tranquility. I also enjoy the furry woodland critters and the lifestyle that I can have here. (I can't really hunt moose in Manhattan and it's doubtful that I'd see one on my lawn.)

by KGIII 9y ago

phil21 9y ago

That's not typical suburbia. I completely understand wanting to get out and into nature where you can't see your neighbors. Makes sense, not for me, but it's totally logical and easy to understand different strokes for different folks. The cookie-cutter typical suburbs of most mid-tier US cities though? I cannot imagine a worse combination of all the bad things from rural living, combined with all the bad things from urban living. Utterly soulless, and I feel actively depressed if I must spend more than a day or two stuck in one. My personal theory is that the social strife we are increasingly seeing in the US is due to the breakdown in the sense of community nationwide. I posit that suburbinification was by far the largest driver of this. This is bad enough, but when you realize 90% of the suburbs in the US are unsustainable subsidies for middle class folks it gets even harder to swallow.

KGIII 9y ago
Yeah, I did the suburban life for a while. Not quite urban, but a single occupancy with a fence that might have been ten feet from the sides of the building and maybe a thousand square feet of back yard. Getting out was great. It's not realistic for many, but it has been fantastic. The comment mentioned moving further afield, beyond suburbia, so I wasn't entirely sure what was meant. I'm about 25 miles from a village with 1200 residents. I'm in a pn unincorporated township that has six residences and a couple of hunting camps. Once the locals (I call them the village people) get to know and accept you, I've never seen a greater sense of community. I suspect you're onto something with the sense of community. Even the unpopular people here, of which there are a few - some self-selecting for the role, wouldn't be allowed to go hungry or homeless. In my township, there is no crime and everyone knows where my keys are, just in case the door is locked. In the village? Well, there are minor property crimes at the rate of maybe two a month. Most of those can be attributed to tourists. There are only 1200 residents but they may swell to ten times that many people during the height if tourist season. The sense of community is not something I'd experienced elsewhere. Ever. Even as a child, my family moved a lot due to my father being in the military. It was unfamiliar feeling and very disconcerting at times - but it is something I've come to cherish. This is the first time I've really felt at home. You know you're an accepted member of the community when they are telling you the gossip and it is no longer about you. It has its charms. I don't have words for it, but the sense of community really does have an overall effect on the people. There is true compassion, even when it isn't a crisis. It doesn't take a flood to make people help their neighbors. I strongly suspect you're not something with that.
amyjess 9y ago
> The cookie-cutter typical suburbs of most mid-tier US cities though? I cannot imagine a worse combination of all the bad things from rural living, combined with all the bad things from urban living. Utterly soulless, and I feel actively depressed if I must spend more than a day or two stuck in one. And for me, a "cookie-cutter" suburb like Plano, TX is utter paradise. We're all different. I don't believe in a soul, and I've never understood what anybody has meant when they complain about something being "soulless". And I've never been interested in being part of a community. I want to live in a single-family home with a yard, little undeveloped space, six-lane arterials on a grid, strip malls at every intersection, at least one hole-in-the-wall Asian restaurant in every strip mall (Plano is a very ethnically-diverse cookie-cutter suburb), etc. That's my dream town.

icebraining 9y ago

That doesn't explain much. I'm currently living in a quite central area of Brussels. Times are on bicycle. 2m from my house: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Ixelles_%28Bruxelles%29_Les_%C3%A9tangs.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Ixelles_... 15m from it: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Bruxelles_-_%C3%89tang_-_Bois_de_la_Cambre_2.JPG/1200px-Bruxelles_-_%C3%89tang_-_Bois_de_la_Cambre_2.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Br... http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Lw2dPOfarIk/VjD8K-tXApI/AAAAAAAAOyU/hmh-FOubdA4/s1600/P1150542.JPG http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Lw2dPOfarIk/VjD8K-tXApI/AAAAAAAAOy... 25m from it: https://i1.wp.com/www.zonienwoud.be/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/beukenkathedraal_2.jpg https://i1.wp.com/www.zonienwoud.be/wp-content/uploads/2015/... https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1369/5154609222_5837e11ab5_b.jpg https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1369/5154609222_5837e11ab5_b.j... https://urbanfragment.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/forc3aat-de-soignes-close-to-brussels-belgium-by-vincent-brassinne.jpg https://urbanfragment.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/forc3aat-d...

KGIII 9y ago
25 minutes on a bicycle will probably just barely get you to the neighbor's house, though you can take the trail through the woods. What you're not seeing is I've got about 3200 acres of mountainous woodland. I can have a few hundred people on my lawn, complete with live music, and the nearest neighbor will only hear it because they joined us. That's the difference. I'm more likely to see a moose than I am to see a stranger. And that's why I moved away from urban/suburban areas. As near as I can tell, more wealthy/rich people are doing much the same. In the ten years since I bought the property, the cost of land has skyrocketed. People are buying remote and moving well past suburbia. Comparatively speaking, I bought the property at a very low price. What I paid ~$500/acre for is now three to four times the price - in just a decade.
- cr0sh 9y ago
  I see a downside to this for everyone else; I'm not faulting you because it may have been this way before you got your land... ...but now that you (and everyone else) owns that land - no one else (unless you let them, or there's some kind of government-mandated form of easement to allow for it) can use that land: They can't hunt on it, they can't fish on it, they can't go off-roading on it - they can't even hike on it and enjoy nature. So in other words, it's a classic case of "I've got mine..." I don't blame you for this - if I had the wherewithal I'd do the same. Heck, as it is (for my budget), my wife and I have been talking about moving out of the city and on to a plot of land (much smaller - even with the cheapest land we couldn't afford 3200 acres - not to mention any upkeep or whatnot, nor taxes). Not that we dislike our neighbors or anything, we're just getting to a point not liking the bustle of the city as much. Our greater concern is more of "how long will it take to reach a hospital for an emergency" (well, that and high-speed internet access - but even that is becoming both less of an issue, as well as something I am beginning to wonder if it might be better to be without). But more and more, these spaces which used to be public property are becoming private, and rarely do the owners (whether individuals or corporations) allow for any others to set foot on the property, at least legally. I guess, though, that this isn't anything new.

corpMaverick 9y ago

The firewall is blocking the image. I imagine it is a beautiful sight of nature. I also love nature. But I would rather have density AND protected natural areas that anybody can enjoy than having a beautiful natural sight in my backyard. Sure the beautiful backyard is nice for me, but it is unsustainable if too many people have one.

KGIII 9y ago
I don't want to derail the thread. I'm outside Rangeley, Maine. If you would like some pictures, I'd be more than happy to email you a few. It is absolutely beautiful. It was comparatively inexpensive and you can hike all day and still be on my property. At the rate similar land is selling, and the single occupancy homes going in, it appears that more monied people are moving in. However, a million dollars will buy you a couple hundred acres here AND allow you to build a nice house on it. If you're patient, you can get the land much cheaper. I bought during the recession and the land was auctioned by a paper company that was going out of business. I pretty much stole it.

felipemnoa 9y ago

Meh. To each their own. Beauty is on the eye of the beholder. The giant forests of steel, glass and concrete in Manhattan are quite beautiful to me, along with everything else that comes with it: It's bridges, the subway, the people, its restaurants and bars, etc. etc.

KGIII 9y ago
Indeed, it is entirely subjective. I speak only for me and can only share observable trends. I do see the appeal of urban living and I can find beauty in the structure. What I really appreciate is the combination of aesthetics, tranquility, and privacy. On the subject of privacy, I am able to be more private in my location than I am if I lived in a city. However, the trade off is anonymity. I can be much more anonymous in an urban area. Definitions follow: I can pee on my lawn and nobody will know. If I pee on someone else's lawn, they will know exactly who I am. I'm not a hermit, I have an active social life and a girlfriend. But, I do enjoy the solitude and tranquility. I also enjoy the furry woodland critters and the lifestyle that I can have here. (I can't really hunt moose in Manhattan and it's doubtful that I'd see one on my lawn.)