4 ms·

Cool service but it ends up being like 2x the price of leasing. For comparison, I've leased two Porsches through PFS in the past and the all-in monthly payment

Cool service but it ends up being like 2x the price of leasing. For comparison, I've leased two Porsches through PFS in the past and the all-in monthly payment (incl tax/insurance) was around $1500/mo for a 911 C4S (36 month) and $900/mo for a Cayman (24 month). And for the $2000/mo subscription, it doesn't seem like you even get access to the 911.

tinbad 9y ago
Right, and Porsches don't even lease very well compared to other brands. One thing I wonder if there's no mileage restrictions it could be worth it (as going over miles on a lease can be expensive).
korzun 9y ago
> Cool service but it ends up being like 2x the price of leasing. You are comparing apples to oranges. Your $1500/month (from the past, different year, packages, car) lease payment is an obligation that requires a 24/36/48 month commitment.
- jessriedel 9y ago
  Also all repair costs! And the ability to swap out models on a whim!
KGIII 9y ago
I am not the target age but I am touring Europe next year. This interests me. Edit: I see I wasn't clear enough. It interests me because it may catch on or be available in other areas, should it be a success. Tooling through Europe in varied Porsches, each optimized for different reasons, would be a great vacation. Easily being able to do this would interest me. Thus, this interests me in that I hope it catches on.
amigoingtodie 9y ago
You need the $3000/mo subscription for that.
neospice 9y ago
What kinda down payment did you need?
- flachsechs 9y ago
  if you have good enough credit you don't need anything down.
- stevencorona 9y ago
  $0 - Just first month and dealer fees.
nunez 9y ago
I am super surprised that a 911 is that cheap to lease. Was it used? I think a service that charged $3k/month for any luxury vehicle, all maintenance included, with no contract, including electric vehicles, would be super clutch. It is MUCH more expensive to rent luxury cars on a per day basis, and having an extended test drive really helps when deciding whether to buy a vehicle. If I wanted to buy a car like this, I’d love to have one for a month or two to break it in, no strings attached.
- stevencorona 9y ago
  No, brand new 2016.
  - nunez 9y ago
    Damn; good to know, thanks!
ryanbertrand 9y ago
Wow lease + tax + insurance was $1500? That seems very low. Insurance itself would be over 200-300, right?
- flachsechs 9y ago
  it costs me $120/month to insure a high end 911.
  - Mtinie 9y ago
    Are you insuring it as a daily driver or a secondary vehicle, out of curiosity?
    - flachsechs 9y ago
      i drive it less than 5000 miles a year. insurance rates aren't determined by how much you drive a car, that's just meta-information the ins. co's collect. theft, crashes, and zip code (for full coverage) are far more important.
- stevencorona 9y ago
  Yea, insurance is about $150/mo in San Francisco. Much lower outside of SF. I think it was ~$60/mo on my Cayman in Charleston, SC.
heimidal 9y ago
I don’t see how that math works out. A base model 911 C4S has estimated lease payments well over $1500/mo, not including insurance. Perhaps in a state with no sales tax?
- stevencorona 9y ago
  In California, so no upfront sales tax on lease, but ~$100/mo of the payment goes to sales tax. Total payment w/ tax is around $1150. Rough numbers: 2016 Heavily optioned C4S Manual- MRSP $125K, negotiated down to $105. Residual is like $75K for C4S w/ Manual. 3 years, 10K miles a year. The Money factor is whatever the lowest PFS was at the time (you can look it up on forums and just demand the base rate).
- pc86 9y ago
  Lease offers are regional (down to the county level sometimes) and can easily swap a lease payment by hundreds of dollars, especially on something like a 911. Lease offers also change monthly. It's nearly impossible to know if a given number is reasonable for a lease. One person can lease something on December 1 for $1k a month and it can be available for $600/mo a month later.
Mtinie 9y ago
So twice the cost for the 22 car package, vs. your lease, but with the ability to traverse the catalog of cars depending on your particular needs at a given time. Expensive, sure, but we’re talking about consumers that most likely view a $1500/month lease as a semi- or fully reasonable monthly expense.
pentae 9y ago
I'd absolutely go for this. I spend about 2-3 months a year in the US and like to drive nice cars. Having not just one new porsche to drive while i'm there, but an entire fleet of them is amazing. Want to go out hiking? Grab an SUV model. Have a hot date Friday night? Grab a convertible 911. Insurance already included? Yes please. And knowing porsche and their customers, these won't be absolutely trashed like rental cars.
- koolba 9y ago
  > And knowing porsche and their customers, these won't be absolutely trashed like rental cars. Not sure about that last one. I know about Porsche drivers taking care of their cars as well, but it’s when the cars are owned by them. That wouldn’t apply here so you’ll get people driving them harder than their own vehicles.
  - ballenf 9y ago
    And that's why I don't think this program will last, at least for the high-end models. Unless maybe, Porsche is planning to use their Atlanta test track (near ATL airport, fyi) to require "Porsche driver ed" before you get the privilege of renting one of their high end models. That would make more sense and give them a lot more cover reputation-wise when there are accidents or deaths. The liability to 3rd parties killed by these drivers is pretty enormous. Maybe Clutch is insulating Porsche itself from this, but you have to imagine a trial judge being pretty sympathetic to a claim against Porsche itself if a third party is killed by one of these renters. Under a theory of reckless endangerment of sorts by putting a dangerous instrument in the hands of an unqualified driver. The program just creates a much stronger tie back to Porsche than a purchase or lease of one of their vehicles.
pc86 9y ago
Was the 24-month lease for the Cayman cheaper than 36? I've got about 25 months left on my BMW but am seriously considering a Porsche next if I continue leasing. I would have loved to do a 24-month lease for the BMW but it was more than 30% more expensive. I like driving nice cars and don't mind spending the money so 24 months seems to be the sweet spot personally, but it's hard to justify it when 36 months is a lot cheaper most of the time.

tinbad 9y ago

Right, and Porsches don't even lease very well compared to other brands. One thing I wonder if there's no mileage restrictions it could be worth it (as going over miles on a lease can be expensive).

korzun 9y ago

> Cool service but it ends up being like 2x the price of leasing. You are comparing apples to oranges. Your $1500/month (from the past, different year, packages, car) lease payment is an obligation that requires a 24/36/48 month commitment.

jessriedel 9y ago
Also all repair costs! And the ability to swap out models on a whim!

KGIII 9y ago

I am not the target age but I am touring Europe next year. This interests me. Edit: I see I wasn't clear enough. It interests me because it may catch on or be available in other areas, should it be a success. Tooling through Europe in varied Porsches, each optimized for different reasons, would be a great vacation. Easily being able to do this would interest me. Thus, this interests me in that I hope it catches on.

amigoingtodie 9y ago

You need the $3000/mo subscription for that.

neospice 9y ago

What kinda down payment did you need?

flachsechs 9y ago
if you have good enough credit you don't need anything down.
stevencorona 9y ago
$0 - Just first month and dealer fees.

nunez 9y ago

I am super surprised that a 911 is that cheap to lease. Was it used? I think a service that charged $3k/month for any luxury vehicle, all maintenance included, with no contract, including electric vehicles, would be super clutch. It is MUCH more expensive to rent luxury cars on a per day basis, and having an extended test drive really helps when deciding whether to buy a vehicle. If I wanted to buy a car like this, I’d love to have one for a month or two to break it in, no strings attached.

stevencorona 9y ago
No, brand new 2016.
- nunez 9y ago
  Damn; good to know, thanks!

ryanbertrand 9y ago

Wow lease + tax + insurance was $1500? That seems very low. Insurance itself would be over 200-300, right?

flachsechs 9y ago
it costs me $120/month to insure a high end 911.
- Mtinie 9y ago
  Are you insuring it as a daily driver or a secondary vehicle, out of curiosity?
  - flachsechs 9y ago
    i drive it less than 5000 miles a year. insurance rates aren't determined by how much you drive a car, that's just meta-information the ins. co's collect. theft, crashes, and zip code (for full coverage) are far more important.
stevencorona 9y ago
Yea, insurance is about $150/mo in San Francisco. Much lower outside of SF. I think it was ~$60/mo on my Cayman in Charleston, SC.

heimidal 9y ago

I don’t see how that math works out. A base model 911 C4S has estimated lease payments well over $1500/mo, not including insurance. Perhaps in a state with no sales tax?

stevencorona 9y ago
In California, so no upfront sales tax on lease, but ~$100/mo of the payment goes to sales tax. Total payment w/ tax is around $1150. Rough numbers: 2016 Heavily optioned C4S Manual- MRSP $125K, negotiated down to $105. Residual is like $75K for C4S w/ Manual. 3 years, 10K miles a year. The Money factor is whatever the lowest PFS was at the time (you can look it up on forums and just demand the base rate).
pc86 9y ago
Lease offers are regional (down to the county level sometimes) and can easily swap a lease payment by hundreds of dollars, especially on something like a 911. Lease offers also change monthly. It's nearly impossible to know if a given number is reasonable for a lease. One person can lease something on December 1 for $1k a month and it can be available for $600/mo a month later.

Mtinie 9y ago

So twice the cost for the 22 car package, vs. your lease, but with the ability to traverse the catalog of cars depending on your particular needs at a given time. Expensive, sure, but we’re talking about consumers that most likely view a $1500/month lease as a semi- or fully reasonable monthly expense.

pentae 9y ago

I'd absolutely go for this. I spend about 2-3 months a year in the US and like to drive nice cars. Having not just one new porsche to drive while i'm there, but an entire fleet of them is amazing. Want to go out hiking? Grab an SUV model. Have a hot date Friday night? Grab a convertible 911. Insurance already included? Yes please. And knowing porsche and their customers, these won't be absolutely trashed like rental cars.

koolba 9y ago
> And knowing porsche and their customers, these won't be absolutely trashed like rental cars. Not sure about that last one. I know about Porsche drivers taking care of their cars as well, but it’s when the cars are owned by them. That wouldn’t apply here so you’ll get people driving them harder than their own vehicles.
- ballenf 9y ago
  And that's why I don't think this program will last, at least for the high-end models. Unless maybe, Porsche is planning to use their Atlanta test track (near ATL airport, fyi) to require "Porsche driver ed" before you get the privilege of renting one of their high end models. That would make more sense and give them a lot more cover reputation-wise when there are accidents or deaths. The liability to 3rd parties killed by these drivers is pretty enormous. Maybe Clutch is insulating Porsche itself from this, but you have to imagine a trial judge being pretty sympathetic to a claim against Porsche itself if a third party is killed by one of these renters. Under a theory of reckless endangerment of sorts by putting a dangerous instrument in the hands of an unqualified driver. The program just creates a much stronger tie back to Porsche than a purchase or lease of one of their vehicles.

pc86 9y ago

Was the 24-month lease for the Cayman cheaper than 36? I've got about 25 months left on my BMW but am seriously considering a Porsche next if I continue leasing. I would have loved to do a 24-month lease for the BMW but it was more than 30% more expensive. I like driving nice cars and don't mind spending the money so 24 months seems to be the sweet spot personally, but it's hard to justify it when 36 months is a lot cheaper most of the time.