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Would you give up your job to just subsist on Basic Income? I thought not. So why do you assume that huge numbers of other people would?

syshum 9y ago
Would I, no but in my experiance I have a much greater work ethic than the average person, and I have a job that I love doing something that I also enjoy as a hobby. I am not working in a menial job I hate or at a company that treats me like a human drone. Further is not really about giving up your job, basic income is for people that will simply be phased out of the employment system due to automation, and other factors that simply will make them unemployable. They have no skills, not education, and often times will be unable to trained to do other more high skilled jobs It is a complete fallacy that everyone can simply be retrained as a computer programmer when all the Driving Jobs, Fast Food Jobs, and Retail jobs are replaced by Robots
- DonaldFisk 9y ago
  Then your experience is limited. There are people with skills and a good education who can't find work, because employers don't want them. Some of them are computer programmers. The purpose of Basic Income is to allow people to survive while they don't have work, and to increase their incentive to find work or at least do something productive, without having to worry about losing their benefits -- not to leave a small elite in work while the rest are reduced to idleness.
  - syshum 9y ago
    >>>Then your experience is limited. There are people with skills and a good education who can't find work, because employers don't want them. Some of them are computer programmers. I am aware, my comment on retraining is that most times when I am involved in a conversation about Job Displacement enviably people respond by claiming everyone can just be retrained as a programmer. As a programmer and sysadmin myself I am fully aware of the current state of the Job market for IT workers both on the operations side and the development side. I also know right now if a programmer can not find work it is often because they are unwilling to relocate to a market where the jobs are, and I am not just talking Silicon Valley which IMO is about the worst place to look for a job as a Dev right now. >>>The purpose of Basic Income is to allow people to survive while they don't have work, and to increase their incentive to find work or at least do something productive, without having to worry about losing their benefits The purpose of Basic Income is to provide people a basic income to cover the necessities of life including Food, Shelter, etc. Allowing them freedom to persue other economic opportunities that will provide them with a higher standard of living,and to take some economic risk including possible starting small business or working for higher risk employers with out having to worry about their rent or if they will eat that day.
- Turing_Machine 9y ago
  "I am not working in a menial job I hate or at a company that treats me like a human drone." Maybe a future where nobody has to do those things isn't a bad goal. We don't have ten year olds breaking coal in the mines any more, nor do we have a peasant/slave class whose masters can beat them with impunity. "It is a complete fallacy that everyone can simply be retrained as a computer programmer when all the Driving Jobs, Fast Food Jobs, and Retail jobs are replaced by Robots" Yes. So what do you propose we do about those people?
  - syshum 9y ago
    I support either some kind of Basic Income, or Negative Income tax. I think that is what we "do about those people" I completely agree it will be a good day where you do not have people burning out their bodies in 40 years from working on the factory line then having to work another 25 years in pain because they can not afford to retire due to the low pay... The problem is, today we just simply tell these people "get a job you loser" and assume anyone that can find said job is simply too lazy to work With no basic income, and very limited welfare we have a massive problem today, that will grow exponentially in the coming decades unless we do something like Basic Income
walterstucco 9y ago
> So why do you assume that huge numbers of other people would? Because it's already happening Most people don't have the skills to get a better job neither they have the will Look at the numbers of hartz IV in Germany The choice is a basic income or a shitty job with no basic income And they are almost forcing people to work in what they call "mini jobs" to lower the number of unoccupied people, but it's not really working If they could all have a basic income, regardless of working or not, they would not work, but have more children and more income for the family

syshum 9y ago

Would I, no but in my experiance I have a much greater work ethic than the average person, and I have a job that I love doing something that I also enjoy as a hobby. I am not working in a menial job I hate or at a company that treats me like a human drone. Further is not really about giving up your job, basic income is for people that will simply be phased out of the employment system due to automation, and other factors that simply will make them unemployable. They have no skills, not education, and often times will be unable to trained to do other more high skilled jobs It is a complete fallacy that everyone can simply be retrained as a computer programmer when all the Driving Jobs, Fast Food Jobs, and Retail jobs are replaced by Robots

DonaldFisk 9y ago
Then your experience is limited. There are people with skills and a good education who can't find work, because employers don't want them. Some of them are computer programmers. The purpose of Basic Income is to allow people to survive while they don't have work, and to increase their incentive to find work or at least do something productive, without having to worry about losing their benefits -- not to leave a small elite in work while the rest are reduced to idleness.
- syshum 9y ago
  >>>Then your experience is limited. There are people with skills and a good education who can't find work, because employers don't want them. Some of them are computer programmers. I am aware, my comment on retraining is that most times when I am involved in a conversation about Job Displacement enviably people respond by claiming everyone can just be retrained as a programmer. As a programmer and sysadmin myself I am fully aware of the current state of the Job market for IT workers both on the operations side and the development side. I also know right now if a programmer can not find work it is often because they are unwilling to relocate to a market where the jobs are, and I am not just talking Silicon Valley which IMO is about the worst place to look for a job as a Dev right now. >>>The purpose of Basic Income is to allow people to survive while they don't have work, and to increase their incentive to find work or at least do something productive, without having to worry about losing their benefits The purpose of Basic Income is to provide people a basic income to cover the necessities of life including Food, Shelter, etc. Allowing them freedom to persue other economic opportunities that will provide them with a higher standard of living,and to take some economic risk including possible starting small business or working for higher risk employers with out having to worry about their rent or if they will eat that day.
Turing_Machine 9y ago
"I am not working in a menial job I hate or at a company that treats me like a human drone." Maybe a future where nobody has to do those things isn't a bad goal. We don't have ten year olds breaking coal in the mines any more, nor do we have a peasant/slave class whose masters can beat them with impunity. "It is a complete fallacy that everyone can simply be retrained as a computer programmer when all the Driving Jobs, Fast Food Jobs, and Retail jobs are replaced by Robots" Yes. So what do you propose we do about those people?
- syshum 9y ago
  I support either some kind of Basic Income, or Negative Income tax. I think that is what we "do about those people" I completely agree it will be a good day where you do not have people burning out their bodies in 40 years from working on the factory line then having to work another 25 years in pain because they can not afford to retire due to the low pay... The problem is, today we just simply tell these people "get a job you loser" and assume anyone that can find said job is simply too lazy to work With no basic income, and very limited welfare we have a massive problem today, that will grow exponentially in the coming decades unless we do something like Basic Income

walterstucco 9y ago

> So why do you assume that huge numbers of other people would? Because it's already happening Most people don't have the skills to get a better job neither they have the will Look at the numbers of hartz IV in Germany The choice is a basic income or a shitty job with no basic income And they are almost forcing people to work in what they call "mini jobs" to lower the number of unoccupied people, but it's not really working If they could all have a basic income, regardless of working or not, they would not work, but have more children and more income for the family