8 ms·

I agree with some of your critique, but I also think you are giving Apple a little too much credit. Yes you can compile and install your own software, but AFAIK

by jsight 9y ago

I agree with some of your critique, but I also think you are giving Apple a little too much credit. Yes you can compile and install your own software, but AFAIK, you have to pay a yearly fee for the privilege of doing so. This isn't nearly as open as Android phones, where it is a simple matter of checking a box. I definitely agree with you that Google isn't giving away the code for philanthropic reasons, though. I can't really feel bad for them for having to incentivize handset makers to do things that make Google even more money.

kn0where 9y ago
> AFAIK, you have to pay a yearly fee for the privilege of doing so. That hasn't been the case for a number of years. As long as you have a Mac, you can download Xcode for free, compile an app, and sync it over to your iOS device.
- ariwilson 9y ago
  Super simple to do as an end user, for sure.
  - bobwaycott 9y ago
    Your average end user who requires things to be simple is never going to install their own apps outside the approved, simple channels.
    - Larrikin 9y ago
      There are multiple thriving app stores in the global android market
      - wil421 9y ago
        I’ll take one App Store over many anyday if it severely lessons the chance of getting malware.
        racer-v 9y ago
        Would you also take one news source over many if it lessens the chance of seeing "fake news"?
        dymk 9y ago
        Would you take one false equivalency over another if it lessens the chance of an "ironic reply"?
        racer-v 9y ago
        Choosing your app store and choosing your news source aren't equivalent, but they're both desirable (for related reasons).
        JumpCrisscross 9y ago
        > Would you also take one news source over many if it lessens the chance of seeing "fake news"? Yes. This is why, every morning, I first get my news from trusted sources.
        racer-v 9y ago
        Who picks those sources - you or your phone's operating system vendor?
      - bobwaycott 9y ago
        You are not replying to my meaning or intention. The context of the discussion was clear. You’ve taken it in a wholly different direction.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  Needing a Mac is an extra expense in itself. I fail to see much difference.
  - futhey 9y ago
    Sure. A company doesn't choose to spend hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars per year to port their development tools to a third-party platform. I'm sure if they believed they would get more & higher quality developers to build apps by doing so, they already would have. Makes since, especially since Windows historically hasn't done the same for Visual Studio / C# (I know they're supposedly trying now or planning to but I confess I haven't followed along closely enough to determine if it's cancelled, delayed, or the scope was actually smaller than full dot net + c# support).
giobox 9y ago
> Yes you can compile and install your own software, but AFAIK, you have to pay a yearly fee for the privilege of doing so. While this was true in the past, this hasn't been the case for a while if you want to build and run on your own personal device. There are some minor caveats, but if you want to compile and run an app locally on your device you don't need to pay Apple the $99 any more. The idea that the version of Android that most people actually use is "open" is arguably a myth - when you look at what the "closed" parts of Android now include, it's a large amount of the feature set that actually matters to most ordinary consumers, and is often the "stick" Google uses to get OEM partners to follow the overarching vision for the platform.
- valine 9y ago
  This is only true if you're fine with reinstalling the side-loaded app every week. This is a pretty major caveat imo. If you want the app to stay on your device past a week you need to buy the paid Apple Developer subscription.
  - lvillani 9y ago
    I keep reading this but my experience is different: I have built and installed two applications on my iPhone more than a month ago and they still run just fine. I didn't have to re-install them every week. My paid developer subscription expired two years ago. I suffer from all restrictions of the free tier (can't publish to App Store, can't use StoreKit, SiriKit, etc) except for the need to re-install the app every week. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    - mercer 9y ago
      Could other people confirm/deny the claims in this comment thread?
- tsycho 9y ago
  > There are some minor caveats One of the "minor caveats" is that the app only runs on your own device for max 1 week, after which it will have to be reinstalled via Xcode. Which basically makes this useless even if all you wanted to do was run your own code on your own device. I have tried this for small apps I made for myself, but after re-installing 2-3 times, the annoyance was too high for me to continue. In contrast, and while I am way more experienced and comfortable with the Apple SDKs/dev environment, deploying a small app that I built for my wife was ridiculously easy, and continues to run fine without me touching it for more than a year now.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
holtalanm 9y ago
>Yes you can compile and install your own software, but AFAIK, you have to pay a yearly fee for the privilege of doing so Yes. And you have to own one of their overpriced computers too.
- saagarjha 9y ago
  Not necessarily. There are third-party tools (such as Cydia Impactor) that are cross-platform.
- AlphaSite 9y ago
  You don’t need to pay a fee but you do need a Mac.
- simonh 9y ago
  Oh for goodness sake, go and get yourself a GNU Stallmanphone or whatever along with the other five or six owners and leave the rest of the world alone. What the heck did Apple ever do to you?
  - wutbrodo 9y ago
    Hilariously enough, your comment only makes sense if you assume that everyone else is as pathetically and irrationally emotionally invested in their consumer choices as you clearly are. It's entirely possible to complain about one of the downsides of apple's approach without thinking being an extremist on the position of consumer control of their computing devices. For example, I use Ubuntu instead of eg Windows; someone as simple-minded as you could make the exact same complaint: "why don't you go compile Linux from scratch and leave the normal people alone". But this would be missing the part of the picture where eg I chose Ubuntu over Debian because the small extra hassle of Debian's extra commitment to free software means not being able to do things out of the box like use certain codecs. People are capable of choosing different points on the spectrum of convenience vs controlled solutions, and those of us who aren't incredibly immature are able to discuss their pros and cons without turning everything into a holy war. > What the heck did Apple ever do to you? Jeez, this part is just embarrassing.

by jsight 9y ago

kn0where 9y ago

> AFAIK, you have to pay a yearly fee for the privilege of doing so. That hasn't been the case for a number of years. As long as you have a Mac, you can download Xcode for free, compile an app, and sync it over to your iOS device.

ariwilson 9y ago
Super simple to do as an end user, for sure.
- bobwaycott 9y ago
  Your average end user who requires things to be simple is never going to install their own apps outside the approved, simple channels.
  - Larrikin 9y ago
    There are multiple thriving app stores in the global android market
    - wil421 9y ago
      I’ll take one App Store over many anyday if it severely lessons the chance of getting malware.
      - racer-v 9y ago
        Would you also take one news source over many if it lessens the chance of seeing "fake news"?
        dymk 9y ago
        Would you take one false equivalency over another if it lessens the chance of an "ironic reply"?
        racer-v 9y ago
        Choosing your app store and choosing your news source aren't equivalent, but they're both desirable (for related reasons).
        JumpCrisscross 9y ago
        > Would you also take one news source over many if it lessens the chance of seeing "fake news"? Yes. This is why, every morning, I first get my news from trusted sources.
        racer-v 9y ago
        Who picks those sources - you or your phone's operating system vendor?
    - bobwaycott 9y ago
      You are not replying to my meaning or intention. The context of the discussion was clear. You’ve taken it in a wholly different direction.
ekianjo 9y ago
Needing a Mac is an extra expense in itself. I fail to see much difference.
- futhey 9y ago
  Sure. A company doesn't choose to spend hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars per year to port their development tools to a third-party platform. I'm sure if they believed they would get more & higher quality developers to build apps by doing so, they already would have. Makes since, especially since Windows historically hasn't done the same for Visual Studio / C# (I know they're supposedly trying now or planning to but I confess I haven't followed along closely enough to determine if it's cancelled, delayed, or the scope was actually smaller than full dot net + c# support).

giobox 9y ago

> Yes you can compile and install your own software, but AFAIK, you have to pay a yearly fee for the privilege of doing so. While this was true in the past, this hasn't been the case for a while if you want to build and run on your own personal device. There are some minor caveats, but if you want to compile and run an app locally on your device you don't need to pay Apple the $99 any more. The idea that the version of Android that most people actually use is "open" is arguably a myth - when you look at what the "closed" parts of Android now include, it's a large amount of the feature set that actually matters to most ordinary consumers, and is often the "stick" Google uses to get OEM partners to follow the overarching vision for the platform.

valine 9y ago
This is only true if you're fine with reinstalling the side-loaded app every week. This is a pretty major caveat imo. If you want the app to stay on your device past a week you need to buy the paid Apple Developer subscription.
- lvillani 9y ago
  I keep reading this but my experience is different: I have built and installed two applications on my iPhone more than a month ago and they still run just fine. I didn't have to re-install them every week. My paid developer subscription expired two years ago. I suffer from all restrictions of the free tier (can't publish to App Store, can't use StoreKit, SiriKit, etc) except for the need to re-install the app every week. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - mercer 9y ago
    Could other people confirm/deny the claims in this comment thread?
tsycho 9y ago
> There are some minor caveats One of the "minor caveats" is that the app only runs on your own device for max 1 week, after which it will have to be reinstalled via Xcode. Which basically makes this useless even if all you wanted to do was run your own code on your own device. I have tried this for small apps I made for myself, but after re-installing 2-3 times, the annoyance was too high for me to continue. In contrast, and while I am way more experienced and comfortable with the Apple SDKs/dev environment, deploying a small app that I built for my wife was ridiculously easy, and continues to run fine without me touching it for more than a year now.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

holtalanm 9y ago

>Yes you can compile and install your own software, but AFAIK, you have to pay a yearly fee for the privilege of doing so Yes. And you have to own one of their overpriced computers too.

saagarjha 9y ago
Not necessarily. There are third-party tools (such as Cydia Impactor) that are cross-platform.
AlphaSite 9y ago
You don’t need to pay a fee but you do need a Mac.
simonh 9y ago
Oh for goodness sake, go and get yourself a GNU Stallmanphone or whatever along with the other five or six owners and leave the rest of the world alone. What the heck did Apple ever do to you?
- wutbrodo 9y ago
  Hilariously enough, your comment only makes sense if you assume that everyone else is as pathetically and irrationally emotionally invested in their consumer choices as you clearly are. It's entirely possible to complain about one of the downsides of apple's approach without thinking being an extremist on the position of consumer control of their computing devices. For example, I use Ubuntu instead of eg Windows; someone as simple-minded as you could make the exact same complaint: "why don't you go compile Linux from scratch and leave the normal people alone". But this would be missing the part of the picture where eg I chose Ubuntu over Debian because the small extra hassle of Debian's extra commitment to free software means not being able to do things out of the box like use certain codecs. People are capable of choosing different points on the spectrum of convenience vs controlled solutions, and those of us who aren't incredibly immature are able to discuss their pros and cons without turning everything into a holy war. > What the heck did Apple ever do to you? Jeez, this part is just embarrassing.