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Both you and the author characterize the speed with disdain, as some cynical outcome. I'm sorry but it's just what the most competitive people are capable of d

Both you and the author characterize the speed with disdain, as some cynical outcome. I'm sorry but it's just what the most competitive people are capable of doing. When you practice, you can compete at that speed and it isn't JUST about who read faster. The efficiency and cogency of arguments is STILL EVALUATED at that level. You can make 20 arguments: 15 bad ones and 5 good ones. A fast and competent opponent will spend less than 5 seconds on each bad one (usually because it's been implicitly answered elsewhere or because it's been contradicted by a higher quality / more recent source) and however much time they need on the good ones. Now, I agree with your characterization of the difference between 'fast' and 'slow' debate. Both are valuable, both emphasize their own skill sets. And yes, people without tons of time or resources will probably get more out of 'slow' debate. But as someone who did both, I think you're painting a caricature of 'fast' debate, which is an extremely rigorous activity filled with incredibly smart people.

eldavido 9y ago
Yep. My experience exactly. Former policy/CX guy here, there's no better way to learn speaking, how to make an argument, how to listen well, how to argue responsively, clash, note-taking, how to do research, etc. If you can do it at 300wpm, normal day-to-day conversation is easy.
Kuiper 9y ago
I think you're painting a caricature of 'fast' debate, which is an extremely rigorous activity filled with incredibly smart people. You'll not hear me argue against the point that 'fast' debate is extremely rigorous and filled with smart people. At its core, debate is a game, and certain people have figured out (and more critically, achieved mastery of) the skillset required to win it--that requires intelligence and a lot of hard work. If my comment came across as negatively characterizing this kind of 'fast' debate, it's mainly because the intent of my post was to say, 'here's what an outsider/layperson might not know about high school debate.' The fact that debates can be won with cogent arguments, and the fact that it's a competition that attracts a lot of hardworking and smart students, are not surprising to most people. However, other aspects of the competition--the incredibly fast pace of speech, and the fact that debates can sometimes be won with absurd arguments based on the "rules" of debate--are probably not consistent with what most people think of when they hear "high school debate."
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eldavido 9y ago

Yep. My experience exactly. Former policy/CX guy here, there's no better way to learn speaking, how to make an argument, how to listen well, how to argue responsively, clash, note-taking, how to do research, etc. If you can do it at 300wpm, normal day-to-day conversation is easy.

Kuiper 9y ago

I think you're painting a caricature of 'fast' debate, which is an extremely rigorous activity filled with incredibly smart people. You'll not hear me argue against the point that 'fast' debate is extremely rigorous and filled with smart people. At its core, debate is a game, and certain people have figured out (and more critically, achieved mastery of) the skillset required to win it--that requires intelligence and a lot of hard work. If my comment came across as negatively characterizing this kind of 'fast' debate, it's mainly because the intent of my post was to say, 'here's what an outsider/layperson might not know about high school debate.' The fact that debates can be won with cogent arguments, and the fact that it's a competition that attracts a lot of hardworking and smart students, are not surprising to most people. However, other aspects of the competition--the incredibly fast pace of speech, and the fact that debates can sometimes be won with absurd arguments based on the "rules" of debate--are probably not consistent with what most people think of when they hear "high school debate."

deleted 9y ago
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