5 ms·

"Corrosion"? It sounds like high school debate started relatively recently, in the 70s, and basically went downhill within a few years. So it's always been a

by kevmo 9y ago

"Corrosion"? It sounds like high school debate started relatively recently, in the 70s, and basically went downhill within a few years. So it's always been a sewer. I enjoy "intellectual discussion", so I went to a college debate team practice once to see if I wanted to join (back in 2003 or so) - I walked out of there with my mind blown. There was absolutely nothing intellectual about college debate team. The entire point was just to see who could say the most words per minute. When I explicitly asked, I was told that content doesn't really matter, just fast talking.

kelvin0 9y ago
So the debate is basically a gentrified 'yo-mama'/rap-battle? Don't get me wrong: I love a good rap battle and the improv prowess of some rappers is simply astounding. But at the end of the day the delivery matters more than the content. I didn't know anything about debate teams, but it seems most similar to football than to chess?
- nnfy 9y ago
  I dont know if it is acceptable to post YouTube links on HN, but here is a recording of recent national champions.[1] That it is even called debate is tragic. 1.https://youtube.com/watch?v=fmO-ziHU_D8 https://youtube.com/watch?v=fmO-ziHU_D8
  - kelvin0 9y ago
    Using the 'N' word in a debate competition? besides that it has more the allure of a verbal seizure ... as you said tragic.
  - scrumper 9y ago
    That’s not really just a recording of the champions is it? It’s a selective edit of bits of the debate with a news interview with the winners. it’s intentionally jarring. Do you have a link to the actual recording? The owner of the clip you linked to removed his link to the actual debate recording after the poster of the original recording asked that this be taken down.
    - nnfy 9y ago
      There is nothing selectively jarring about 20+ seconds of grown women hyperventilating and screaming "nigga" during a supposed national scholastic event.
      - scrumper 9y ago
        There absolutely is when those 20+ seconds are jump cut in the middle of a calm interview. The debate itself was far more than 20 seconds. It is entirely selective. I clicked on the video because I was interested in an example of this high velocity, arcane, rule-optimized debate game that we're all talking about on this story. What I got instead was a video cutting the most shocking and ineffective parts of their performance in with them discussing their win on TV, done for effect. Come off it. I could record your next presentation and edit out all but the parts where you said "umm" and you'd look like a moron. Even more so if I then creatively cut that in with video of you explaining to your boss how you'd done a great job in the meeting. (I have no idea what you do; I am sure you can understand the analogy).
        nnfy 9y ago
        I don't know how to make this any clearer, as you seem to have a vested interest in maintaining that the clips indicate nothing untoward about the competition. A clip of ANY duration showing those behaviors bid competition is unnaceptable. > Come off it. I could record your next presentation and edit out all but the parts where you said "umm" and you'd look like a moron. Even more so if I then creatively cut that in with video of you explaining to your boss how you'd done a great job in the meeting. (I have no idea what you do; I am sure you can understand the analogy). Or, you could generate a single clip where I say "nigga" during a meeting and scream non-sequiturs as quickly as I could in order to get a point across, and I would be rightly fired for behaving like an animal. Regardless of whether the clip is 5 or 20 seconds long The fact that something is selectively edited does not alone imply that it is biased or incorrect. The clips were more than enough to highlight the state to which modern debate has devolved. There are other, unedited examples of this inane style of "debate". My point is that this style of debate activity itself is not in any way conducive to the exchange of ideas or advancement of understanding; the fact that they were given a trophy after spending ANY time debating in such a manner is an extremely poor reflection on the state of "debate" in our schools.
- sjg007 9y ago
  This would be a great movie.
anigbrowl 9y ago
I was told that content doesn't really matter, just fast talking Napoleon once derided the English as 'a nation of shopkeepers.' Had he been granted a glimpse of the modern USA, I suspect he'd have labeled it a 'a nation of sales associates.' I had to buy a new cellphone yesterday, with some administrative wrinkles involving loss of the previous one and a change of service plan. The sales associate would not shut up and insisted on barraging me with useless information while ignoring my repeated attempts to articulate my simple and clearly defined requirements. A transaction that should have taken 10-15 minutes ended taking nearly an hour.
- sjg007 9y ago
  Or health insurance call center employees, whose only goal is to satisfy your query minimally to get you off the phone, including transferring you to someone they say will help you (but does not) or flat out lying to you about written communications you already have in hand.

by kevmo 9y ago

kelvin0 9y ago

So the debate is basically a gentrified 'yo-mama'/rap-battle? Don't get me wrong: I love a good rap battle and the improv prowess of some rappers is simply astounding. But at the end of the day the delivery matters more than the content. I didn't know anything about debate teams, but it seems most similar to football than to chess?

nnfy 9y ago
I dont know if it is acceptable to post YouTube links on HN, but here is a recording of recent national champions.[1] That it is even called debate is tragic. 1.https://youtube.com/watch?v=fmO-ziHU_D8 https://youtube.com/watch?v=fmO-ziHU_D8
- kelvin0 9y ago
  Using the 'N' word in a debate competition? besides that it has more the allure of a verbal seizure ... as you said tragic.
- scrumper 9y ago
  That’s not really just a recording of the champions is it? It’s a selective edit of bits of the debate with a news interview with the winners. it’s intentionally jarring. Do you have a link to the actual recording? The owner of the clip you linked to removed his link to the actual debate recording after the poster of the original recording asked that this be taken down.
  - nnfy 9y ago
    There is nothing selectively jarring about 20+ seconds of grown women hyperventilating and screaming "nigga" during a supposed national scholastic event.
    - scrumper 9y ago
      There absolutely is when those 20+ seconds are jump cut in the middle of a calm interview. The debate itself was far more than 20 seconds. It is entirely selective. I clicked on the video because I was interested in an example of this high velocity, arcane, rule-optimized debate game that we're all talking about on this story. What I got instead was a video cutting the most shocking and ineffective parts of their performance in with them discussing their win on TV, done for effect. Come off it. I could record your next presentation and edit out all but the parts where you said "umm" and you'd look like a moron. Even more so if I then creatively cut that in with video of you explaining to your boss how you'd done a great job in the meeting. (I have no idea what you do; I am sure you can understand the analogy).
      - nnfy 9y ago
        I don't know how to make this any clearer, as you seem to have a vested interest in maintaining that the clips indicate nothing untoward about the competition. A clip of ANY duration showing those behaviors bid competition is unnaceptable. > Come off it. I could record your next presentation and edit out all but the parts where you said "umm" and you'd look like a moron. Even more so if I then creatively cut that in with video of you explaining to your boss how you'd done a great job in the meeting. (I have no idea what you do; I am sure you can understand the analogy). Or, you could generate a single clip where I say "nigga" during a meeting and scream non-sequiturs as quickly as I could in order to get a point across, and I would be rightly fired for behaving like an animal. Regardless of whether the clip is 5 or 20 seconds long The fact that something is selectively edited does not alone imply that it is biased or incorrect. The clips were more than enough to highlight the state to which modern debate has devolved. There are other, unedited examples of this inane style of "debate". My point is that this style of debate activity itself is not in any way conducive to the exchange of ideas or advancement of understanding; the fact that they were given a trophy after spending ANY time debating in such a manner is an extremely poor reflection on the state of "debate" in our schools.
sjg007 9y ago
This would be a great movie.

anigbrowl 9y ago

I was told that content doesn't really matter, just fast talking Napoleon once derided the English as 'a nation of shopkeepers.' Had he been granted a glimpse of the modern USA, I suspect he'd have labeled it a 'a nation of sales associates.' I had to buy a new cellphone yesterday, with some administrative wrinkles involving loss of the previous one and a change of service plan. The sales associate would not shut up and insisted on barraging me with useless information while ignoring my repeated attempts to articulate my simple and clearly defined requirements. A transaction that should have taken 10-15 minutes ended taking nearly an hour.

sjg007 9y ago
Or health insurance call center employees, whose only goal is to satisfy your query minimally to get you off the phone, including transferring you to someone they say will help you (but does not) or flat out lying to you about written communications you already have in hand.