7 ms·

How the CIA Staged Sham Academic Conferences to Thwart Iran’s Nuclear Program

76 points by eni 9y ago

amir 9y ago
I stopped reading after > To show his sincerity and goodwill, the agent put his hand over his heart. “Salam habibi,” he said. Either the reporter, or the CIA hasn't done their research. Habibi is Arabic, and that's not how Iranian greet each other, especially if they want to show sincerity and goodwill.
- totalZero 9y ago
  Agreed. It'd be akin to saying "hola amigo" to an American scientist.
  - wyldfire 9y ago
    Are you agreeing with Amir or Cacti? "Hola amigo" is an expression that many US Americans understand and do occasionally use to greet one another.
    - mfoy_ 9y ago
      I think that answers your question. He's just drawing a more familiar parallel.
    - totalZero 9y ago
      With Amir. Given the context of an intelligence officer knocking on an unfamiliar person's hotel room door unexpected and asking them to defect, I think "salaam habibi" would strike most Farsi speakers as a bizarre and malapropos greeting. "Hola amigo. I’m from the CIA, and I want you to board a plane with me to the United States." I see it as an indicator of careless journalism that the author is citing an unnamed source "familiar on the matter" about a 10-year-old conversation that he seems not to have transcribed into the right language. I put it into the same category of people who ask what part of Mexico the Puerto Ricans are from.
      - mikeash 9y ago
        I get what you're saying, but "hola amigo" is a really bad example of it. There are 40 million Spanish speakers in the US and tens of millions more use Spanish phrases routinely as a personality quirk. "Hola" and "amigo" are both words that I'd expect most Americans to understand, and I wouldn't bat an eye if a CIA agent greeted my in that way, assuming the context wasn't too formal. Maybe a better example would be... well, if they put their hand over their heart and said "salaam habibi" to an American scientist.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        mason55 9y ago
        Yeah, maybe I watch too many movies, but "hola amigo" feels like a totally appropriate greeting before you're about to do some shady spy shit. I think that it's actually a good greeting because it indicates to the other person that this interaction is about to be a bit informal.
    - mitochondrion 9y ago
      >"Hola amigo" is an expression that many US Americans understand and do occasionally use to greet one another I suppose that depends on your definition of "US Americans".
      - CoryG89 9y ago
        Americans that live in the US? How many valid definitions are there?
  - askdufuga 9y ago
    Actually my fellow comrade, people say that kind of stuff fairly often.
- josefresco 9y ago
  "According to a person familiar with this encounter, which took place about a decade ago" Although I doubt the "mistake" was unintentional.
  - shell_scripter 9y ago
    Are you kidding? CIA never makes mistakes! They're the greatest, flawless intelligence agency in the world! https://www.rt.com/news/fsb-detain-cia-agent-253/ https://www.rt.com/news/fsb-detain-cia-agent-253/
    - strictnein 9y ago
      You're sharing a Russia Today article?
      - 1001101 9y ago
        RT used to be half-way decent. Some might argue that they've turned up the agitprop dial a bit recently.
        partiallypro 9y ago
        RT has always been a Russia propaganda arm. They were never decent. It's interesting to read every once in a while, but only to see Kremlin talking points.
        totalZero 9y ago
        RT was specifically created by the Russian government to influence foreigners.
      - yodon 9y ago
        It's a brand new account with negative karma and two comments, both pro-Russian in context. Either it's somebody's sock puppet account or someone new who doesn't understand that HN really is different from Reddit and a higher level of intellectual discourse works much better here.
- Cacti 9y ago
  Perhaps the agent was acting as an Arab while at the conference, and was obviously not Persian? Perhaps the Iranian had relatives who were Arab? Maybe the agent acted like the guy was Arab when they first bumped into each-other, to throw off the idea he was looking for Iranians, and this is like an inside joke to be friendly? I mean, there are plenty of possibilities here, including that the person describing the event is describing it second hand well after a decade has passed. Don't be in such a rush to judgement; you might learn something.
- jgalt212 9y ago
  this is a great thread for ngate. HN debating whether or not the CIA's tradecraft was up to snuff.
  - tr1ck5t3r 9y ago
    More to the point, considering Trump is just a mouthpiece or easily led to a conclusion based on data given to him by the the Industrial Military Machine,will be making a decision on Iran's nuclear program soon, is this piece designed to shape opinions before the official announcement? So many ramifications, which path do you follow?
- tryingagainbro 9y ago
  “I’m from the CIA, and I want you to board a plane with me to the United States.” I'm sure his salutation was forgiven...the offer is what makes him think a trillion things a second.
vectorEQ 9y ago
if u want to know what iranian nuclear scientists do for a living.. they don't make bombs :P https://www.thenewenergyindustry.com/project/the-story-of-mehran-keshe-a-modern-day-nikola-tesla/ https://www.thenewenergyindustry.com/project/the-story-of-me... But maybe now it make sense why they want to thwart their research efforts and destroy their 'reactors' ? ;P
- TACIXAT 9y ago
  When I loaded it, I was like wow, this looks like some free energy non-sense. Then it was! See also, Searl. http://www.searlsolution.com/technology2.html http://www.searlsolution.com/technology2.html
unethical_ban 9y ago
Isn't it bad that we are talking about American spycraft against a rival, regarding a method they may still need to employ? This isn't like researching the Bay of Pigs.
throwaway9728 9y ago
And let us not forget the endless string of assassinations carried out by foreign intelligence agencies against Iranian nuclear scientists [0][1][2][3][4], indiscriminately killing civilians – women and children. Of course, we as a nation are so overwhelmingly vilified by US media that such tragedies happening to us don't get awarded the label of "Terrorism." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majid_Shahriari https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majid_Shahriari [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fereydoon_Abbasi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fereydoon_Abbasi [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoud_Alimohammadi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoud_Alimohammadi [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darioush_Rezaeinejad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darioush_Rezaeinejad [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mostafa_Ahmadi-Roshan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mostafa_Ahmadi-Roshan
- gr__or 9y ago
  I'm certainly no fan of the CIA and the fucked up shit it's done (and still doing), especially to your country. But isn't there a difference between a somewhat targeted assassination and an attack which's only target is maximum civillian damage (aka the typical terror bomb plot)? I don't want to justify these actions, I just think there is a qualitative difference.
  - eesmith 9y ago
    Sure, there's a difference. There's also a difference between first and second degree murder, but they are both still murder. From what I can tell, most terrorists want to achieve a more specific goal than just to maximize civilian damage. Here are some groups which are called terrorist organizations: Earth Liberation Front: carries out property damage related to fur farming, meat packing, GMO research, logging, etc. Army of God, a Christian anti-abortionist group: kidnapped a doctor who performed abortions, and his wife, murdered or attempted to murder abortion providers, and carried out clinic bombings and arson. In both cases the goal was to increase the perceived costs of respectively exploiting the environment and carrying out abortions. What is the difference between a targeted murder of a foreign scientists by the CIA and a targeted murder of an abortion provider? (I use "murder" because I think "assassination" is a fancy name partially meant to justify murder as an aspect of state power.)

76 points by eni 9y ago

amir 9y ago

I stopped reading after > To show his sincerity and goodwill, the agent put his hand over his heart. “Salam habibi,” he said. Either the reporter, or the CIA hasn't done their research. Habibi is Arabic, and that's not how Iranian greet each other, especially if they want to show sincerity and goodwill.

totalZero 9y ago
Agreed. It'd be akin to saying "hola amigo" to an American scientist.
- wyldfire 9y ago
  Are you agreeing with Amir or Cacti? "Hola amigo" is an expression that many US Americans understand and do occasionally use to greet one another.
  - mfoy_ 9y ago
    I think that answers your question. He's just drawing a more familiar parallel.
  - totalZero 9y ago
    With Amir. Given the context of an intelligence officer knocking on an unfamiliar person's hotel room door unexpected and asking them to defect, I think "salaam habibi" would strike most Farsi speakers as a bizarre and malapropos greeting. "Hola amigo. I’m from the CIA, and I want you to board a plane with me to the United States." I see it as an indicator of careless journalism that the author is citing an unnamed source "familiar on the matter" about a 10-year-old conversation that he seems not to have transcribed into the right language. I put it into the same category of people who ask what part of Mexico the Puerto Ricans are from.
    - mikeash 9y ago
      I get what you're saying, but "hola amigo" is a really bad example of it. There are 40 million Spanish speakers in the US and tens of millions more use Spanish phrases routinely as a personality quirk. "Hola" and "amigo" are both words that I'd expect most Americans to understand, and I wouldn't bat an eye if a CIA agent greeted my in that way, assuming the context wasn't too formal. Maybe a better example would be... well, if they put their hand over their heart and said "salaam habibi" to an American scientist.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - mason55 9y ago
        Yeah, maybe I watch too many movies, but "hola amigo" feels like a totally appropriate greeting before you're about to do some shady spy shit. I think that it's actually a good greeting because it indicates to the other person that this interaction is about to be a bit informal.
  - mitochondrion 9y ago
    >"Hola amigo" is an expression that many US Americans understand and do occasionally use to greet one another I suppose that depends on your definition of "US Americans".
    - CoryG89 9y ago
      Americans that live in the US? How many valid definitions are there?
- askdufuga 9y ago
  Actually my fellow comrade, people say that kind of stuff fairly often.
josefresco 9y ago
"According to a person familiar with this encounter, which took place about a decade ago" Although I doubt the "mistake" was unintentional.
- shell_scripter 9y ago
  Are you kidding? CIA never makes mistakes! They're the greatest, flawless intelligence agency in the world! https://www.rt.com/news/fsb-detain-cia-agent-253/ https://www.rt.com/news/fsb-detain-cia-agent-253/
  - strictnein 9y ago
    You're sharing a Russia Today article?
    - 1001101 9y ago
      RT used to be half-way decent. Some might argue that they've turned up the agitprop dial a bit recently.
      - partiallypro 9y ago
        RT has always been a Russia propaganda arm. They were never decent. It's interesting to read every once in a while, but only to see Kremlin talking points.
      - totalZero 9y ago
        RT was specifically created by the Russian government to influence foreigners.
    - yodon 9y ago
      It's a brand new account with negative karma and two comments, both pro-Russian in context. Either it's somebody's sock puppet account or someone new who doesn't understand that HN really is different from Reddit and a higher level of intellectual discourse works much better here.
Cacti 9y ago
Perhaps the agent was acting as an Arab while at the conference, and was obviously not Persian? Perhaps the Iranian had relatives who were Arab? Maybe the agent acted like the guy was Arab when they first bumped into each-other, to throw off the idea he was looking for Iranians, and this is like an inside joke to be friendly? I mean, there are plenty of possibilities here, including that the person describing the event is describing it second hand well after a decade has passed. Don't be in such a rush to judgement; you might learn something.
jgalt212 9y ago
this is a great thread for ngate. HN debating whether or not the CIA's tradecraft was up to snuff.
- tr1ck5t3r 9y ago
  More to the point, considering Trump is just a mouthpiece or easily led to a conclusion based on data given to him by the the Industrial Military Machine,will be making a decision on Iran's nuclear program soon, is this piece designed to shape opinions before the official announcement? So many ramifications, which path do you follow?
tryingagainbro 9y ago
“I’m from the CIA, and I want you to board a plane with me to the United States.” I'm sure his salutation was forgiven...the offer is what makes him think a trillion things a second.

vectorEQ 9y ago

if u want to know what iranian nuclear scientists do for a living.. they don't make bombs :P https://www.thenewenergyindustry.com/project/the-story-of-mehran-keshe-a-modern-day-nikola-tesla/ https://www.thenewenergyindustry.com/project/the-story-of-me... But maybe now it make sense why they want to thwart their research efforts and destroy their 'reactors' ? ;P

TACIXAT 9y ago
When I loaded it, I was like wow, this looks like some free energy non-sense. Then it was! See also, Searl. http://www.searlsolution.com/technology2.html http://www.searlsolution.com/technology2.html

unethical_ban 9y ago

Isn't it bad that we are talking about American spycraft against a rival, regarding a method they may still need to employ? This isn't like researching the Bay of Pigs.

throwaway9728 9y ago

And let us not forget the endless string of assassinations carried out by foreign intelligence agencies against Iranian nuclear scientists [0][1][2][3][4], indiscriminately killing civilians – women and children. Of course, we as a nation are so overwhelmingly vilified by US media that such tragedies happening to us don't get awarded the label of "Terrorism." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majid_Shahriari https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majid_Shahriari [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fereydoon_Abbasi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fereydoon_Abbasi [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoud_Alimohammadi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoud_Alimohammadi [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darioush_Rezaeinejad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darioush_Rezaeinejad [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mostafa_Ahmadi-Roshan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mostafa_Ahmadi-Roshan

gr__or 9y ago
I'm certainly no fan of the CIA and the fucked up shit it's done (and still doing), especially to your country. But isn't there a difference between a somewhat targeted assassination and an attack which's only target is maximum civillian damage (aka the typical terror bomb plot)? I don't want to justify these actions, I just think there is a qualitative difference.
- eesmith 9y ago
  Sure, there's a difference. There's also a difference between first and second degree murder, but they are both still murder. From what I can tell, most terrorists want to achieve a more specific goal than just to maximize civilian damage. Here are some groups which are called terrorist organizations: Earth Liberation Front: carries out property damage related to fur farming, meat packing, GMO research, logging, etc. Army of God, a Christian anti-abortionist group: kidnapped a doctor who performed abortions, and his wife, murdered or attempted to murder abortion providers, and carried out clinic bombings and arson. In both cases the goal was to increase the perceived costs of respectively exploiting the environment and carrying out abortions. What is the difference between a targeted murder of a foreign scientists by the CIA and a targeted murder of an abortion provider? (I use "murder" because I think "assassination" is a fancy name partially meant to justify murder as an aspect of state power.)