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It has everything to do with home life and environment. No classroom within the expected margins of quality can overcome a negative home life that does not valu

It has everything to do with home life and environment. No classroom within the expected margins of quality can overcome a negative home life that does not value education and encourage student achievement. Wealth and cultural/familial values are the major culprits.

bitxbitxbitcoin 9y ago
Lack of wealth and lack of cultural/familial values more so than their overwhelming presence - though some might argue against the cultural part. When will American culture praise and reward academic acheivement in the way that some other cultures do?
- derefr 9y ago
  I feel like the cultures that "praise and reward academic acheivement" are mostly the same cultures that value the concept of castes/genetic nobility (i.e. the idea that you can come from a "smart family", and the automatic association of a "noble" birth with inborn intelligence.) America, in trying to promote the idea that anyone can become anything, has quite thoroughly quashed the idea that it is of any benefit to come from a "cultured" background; and, thereby, has devalued the concept of acquiring a Liberal Arts education as a necessary stepping stone in dynasty-building. There are probably benefits to this, but there are also obvious drawbacks.
- zanny 9y ago
  When it stops being short-term profitable (in the forms of money or power) to systemically suppress intellectualism.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  I would argue that cultural influences do play a major role. Asian Americans on average make nearly $20k/yr more than whites. Almost 20% of billionaires are Jewish[1]. Those kinds of discrepancies don't come from nowhere, and absolutely show that upbringing and culture have a massive effect on future growth and goal attainment. Now look at popular US culture nowadays. People are told they can be whatever they want to be, and losers are given participation trophies. Comfort and inclusion is seen as more important than competition and self-control. Our culture is changing massively, and it's showing in our test scores. [1] https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/36760/were-48-of-american-billionaires-jewish-in-2014https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/36760/were-48-of-american-billionaires-jewish-in-2014 https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/36760/were-48-o...
  - QAPereo 9y ago
    Education is typically very important in a Jewish household, STEM, medicine, law, and business are likewise very respected, along with musical talent. I’m Jewish, and I’d say the cultural norm ranged from supportive of the things I mentioned, to extremely demanding of them. I’ve noticed similar patterns from childhood well into adulthood in my Asian friends, whether they’re Indian, Japanese, Chinese or Korean. Drive matters. A family with expectations, and generations of educational aspirations matter, if you’re trying to excel.
helthanatos 9y ago
The real problem is tests and goals changing every year... Constant changes to curriculum and learning goals cause nothing but confusion.
- csa 9y ago
  While I agree that this is a problem (i.e., one of suspect measurement), I don't think that it's the major problem. Tests that measure stuff that a not insignificant portion of the test taking population consider either irrelevant or (worse) antithetical to their lives are going to yield wonky results. The administrators claim to be measuring school or teacher effectiveness, while I would suggest that they are basically measuring SES. Said another way, if you give tests that ask people about stuff that neither they nor most of the people they know care about, you shouldn't be surprised by bad and/or inconsistent results.
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  Move fast and break things...

bitxbitxbitcoin 9y ago

Lack of wealth and lack of cultural/familial values more so than their overwhelming presence - though some might argue against the cultural part. When will American culture praise and reward academic acheivement in the way that some other cultures do?

derefr 9y ago
I feel like the cultures that "praise and reward academic acheivement" are mostly the same cultures that value the concept of castes/genetic nobility (i.e. the idea that you can come from a "smart family", and the automatic association of a "noble" birth with inborn intelligence.) America, in trying to promote the idea that anyone can become anything, has quite thoroughly quashed the idea that it is of any benefit to come from a "cultured" background; and, thereby, has devalued the concept of acquiring a Liberal Arts education as a necessary stepping stone in dynasty-building. There are probably benefits to this, but there are also obvious drawbacks.
zanny 9y ago
When it stops being short-term profitable (in the forms of money or power) to systemically suppress intellectualism.
TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
I would argue that cultural influences do play a major role. Asian Americans on average make nearly $20k/yr more than whites. Almost 20% of billionaires are Jewish[1]. Those kinds of discrepancies don't come from nowhere, and absolutely show that upbringing and culture have a massive effect on future growth and goal attainment. Now look at popular US culture nowadays. People are told they can be whatever they want to be, and losers are given participation trophies. Comfort and inclusion is seen as more important than competition and self-control. Our culture is changing massively, and it's showing in our test scores. [1] https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/36760/were-48-of-american-billionaires-jewish-in-2014https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/36760/were-48-of-american-billionaires-jewish-in-2014 https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/36760/were-48-o...
- QAPereo 9y ago
  Education is typically very important in a Jewish household, STEM, medicine, law, and business are likewise very respected, along with musical talent. I’m Jewish, and I’d say the cultural norm ranged from supportive of the things I mentioned, to extremely demanding of them. I’ve noticed similar patterns from childhood well into adulthood in my Asian friends, whether they’re Indian, Japanese, Chinese or Korean. Drive matters. A family with expectations, and generations of educational aspirations matter, if you’re trying to excel.

helthanatos 9y ago

The real problem is tests and goals changing every year... Constant changes to curriculum and learning goals cause nothing but confusion.

csa 9y ago
While I agree that this is a problem (i.e., one of suspect measurement), I don't think that it's the major problem. Tests that measure stuff that a not insignificant portion of the test taking population consider either irrelevant or (worse) antithetical to their lives are going to yield wonky results. The administrators claim to be measuring school or teacher effectiveness, while I would suggest that they are basically measuring SES. Said another way, if you give tests that ask people about stuff that neither they nor most of the people they know care about, you shouldn't be surprised by bad and/or inconsistent results.
TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
Move fast and break things...