4 ms·

I believe it is inherently more difficult - http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/moser.html http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/moser.html

w1ntermute 16y ago
I have read Moser's essays before and agree that passable written Chinese (have to be able to write the characters correctly) is harder to learn than passable written English (just get the spelling close enough and the reader will probably figure it out). However, giardini said "It takes years longer to learn any Chinese dialect than to learn English", and I'm also referring to the spoken language. In many ways, spoken Chinese is easier to learn, especially at more advanced levels, than spoken English. One reason is that most of its word roots are native. For example, the word for computer literally means "electric brain". In English, OTOH, most advanced/scientific terms are derived from Latin/Greek roots, which makes them much more difficult to remember.
- notahacker 16y ago
  In that particular example the English word "computer" simply adds a suffix to the already-in-native-use Latin verb "to compute" which is a standard English way of converting to a noun meaning "a thing that computes". The main problem here is that compute is a relatively uncommon word (especially outside the context of computers), and English as a language has too many uncommon words. However there are more important things than vocubulary (which you can learn by rote given sufficient motivation) when applying basic foreign language skills learned in your homeland from a non-native speaker. English-speakers tend to be unusually tolerant of mispronunciations as well as misspellings; likewise with our excessively complex grammar. When you're not having to master things like tone usage, communication on a basic level (surely all that can be expected of most US high-school students) is a lot easier to master.
  - w1ntermute 16y ago
    In that particular example the English word "computer" simply adds a suffix to the already-in-native-use Latin verb "to compute" which is a standard English way of converting to a noun meaning "a thing that computes". Which is exactly the problem. We shouldn't be using Latin roots to derive English words - we should use native vocabulary, because then we don't end up with commonly used words based on obscure roots that are rarely used. When you're not having to master things like tone usage, communication on a basic level (surely all that can be expected of most US high-school students) is a lot easier to master. If you think that the Chinese aren't tolerant of accents, you are sorely mistaken. In fact, a large portion of Chinese TV contains subtitles because of the various accents from different parts of China that can make it difficult for them to understand each other. Also, do you think that English doesn't convey meaning by tone? One English sentence can have several different meanings based on things such as tone and stress, and is one of the most difficult aspects of English for ESL speakers to master. And in all honesty, the tones aren't that difficult to master. If you take a Chinese class, you'll spend at least the first month working on them, and once you've got them down, that's that.
    - notahacker 16y ago
      Many Latin words are arguably as native to the language as those with Germanic or Norse ancestry; compute was present in the language long before the concept of a computer was conceived. Obviously there are purposely archaic examples designed by intellectuals to make their new discoveries more impressive. Borrowed words are a problem for any language, I understand the influence of Western culture and innovations difficult to express using native words is increasingly leading to awkward transliterations in Chinese which mislead both when it comes to semantics and phonetics. I'm aware of the huge differences between Chinese dialects, but lack of mutual intelligibility when listening to other Chinese is hardly a sign of receptiveness to the incoherent ramblings of foreigners. English intonation is subtle (which might make it hard to learn). It's also a relatively advanced skill, with it being quite possible to converse in English without intentionally using tone at all. Tone in English might imply something about the context of what is said, such as whether it is intended as a question, but doesn't change the meaning of the word and make the sentence nonsensical.

w1ntermute 16y ago

I have read Moser's essays before and agree that passable written Chinese (have to be able to write the characters correctly) is harder to learn than passable written English (just get the spelling close enough and the reader will probably figure it out). However, giardini said "It takes years longer to learn any Chinese dialect than to learn English", and I'm also referring to the spoken language. In many ways, spoken Chinese is easier to learn, especially at more advanced levels, than spoken English. One reason is that most of its word roots are native. For example, the word for computer literally means "electric brain". In English, OTOH, most advanced/scientific terms are derived from Latin/Greek roots, which makes them much more difficult to remember.

notahacker 16y ago
In that particular example the English word "computer" simply adds a suffix to the already-in-native-use Latin verb "to compute" which is a standard English way of converting to a noun meaning "a thing that computes". The main problem here is that compute is a relatively uncommon word (especially outside the context of computers), and English as a language has too many uncommon words. However there are more important things than vocubulary (which you can learn by rote given sufficient motivation) when applying basic foreign language skills learned in your homeland from a non-native speaker. English-speakers tend to be unusually tolerant of mispronunciations as well as misspellings; likewise with our excessively complex grammar. When you're not having to master things like tone usage, communication on a basic level (surely all that can be expected of most US high-school students) is a lot easier to master.
- w1ntermute 16y ago
  In that particular example the English word "computer" simply adds a suffix to the already-in-native-use Latin verb "to compute" which is a standard English way of converting to a noun meaning "a thing that computes". Which is exactly the problem. We shouldn't be using Latin roots to derive English words - we should use native vocabulary, because then we don't end up with commonly used words based on obscure roots that are rarely used. When you're not having to master things like tone usage, communication on a basic level (surely all that can be expected of most US high-school students) is a lot easier to master. If you think that the Chinese aren't tolerant of accents, you are sorely mistaken. In fact, a large portion of Chinese TV contains subtitles because of the various accents from different parts of China that can make it difficult for them to understand each other. Also, do you think that English doesn't convey meaning by tone? One English sentence can have several different meanings based on things such as tone and stress, and is one of the most difficult aspects of English for ESL speakers to master. And in all honesty, the tones aren't that difficult to master. If you take a Chinese class, you'll spend at least the first month working on them, and once you've got them down, that's that.
  - notahacker 16y ago
    Many Latin words are arguably as native to the language as those with Germanic or Norse ancestry; compute was present in the language long before the concept of a computer was conceived. Obviously there are purposely archaic examples designed by intellectuals to make their new discoveries more impressive. Borrowed words are a problem for any language, I understand the influence of Western culture and innovations difficult to express using native words is increasingly leading to awkward transliterations in Chinese which mislead both when it comes to semantics and phonetics. I'm aware of the huge differences between Chinese dialects, but lack of mutual intelligibility when listening to other Chinese is hardly a sign of receptiveness to the incoherent ramblings of foreigners. English intonation is subtle (which might make it hard to learn). It's also a relatively advanced skill, with it being quite possible to converse in English without intentionally using tone at all. Tone in English might imply something about the context of what is said, such as whether it is intended as a question, but doesn't change the meaning of the word and make the sentence nonsensical.