3 ms·

But a lot of data cannot be opened for various reasons (privacy being a huge one) - see netflix prize 2 cancellation in the ML field. There is also the issue o

by cdavid 16y ago

But a lot of data cannot be opened for various reasons (privacy being a huge one) - see netflix prize 2 cancellation in the ML field. There is also the issue of preventing competitor (other researchers here) to get a free ride on your work - getting data, preparing them is a huge part of the researcher's work in some fields.

RaphaelWimmer 16y ago
This "getting a free ride on your work" is also called "standing on the shoulders of giants".
- Lewisham 16y ago
  (Disclaimer: I'm the author of the OP). Yes, but the person you are replying to is right to note the competitive aspects of research. A lot of people might say "well, this project is on-going, and I don't want people scooping/stealing it from me." It's a sad thing, but most research labs are in a a competitive relationship with other ones, and a citation is less useful in those oh-so-important tenure reviews than a publication. I wish it was more the "standing on the shoulders of giants"! That's partly why I didn't call on academics themselves to release code, but for some sort of authoritative institution instead, to level the field for everyone. That should remove the competitive aspects (I understand "that should" is a very naïve outlook ;) )
ewjordan 16y ago
Academics in some fields build up entire careers worth of work that all builds upon their "special sauce" super-secret dataset or software, which they've built up over many years, and while there might be enough information in principle in their papers to reproduce the data or results, it would be a thesis level project to actually do so. There's a story (unfortunately I forget where, perhaps someone else can jog my memory?) about a string theory PhD student who, after getting annoyed wasting months on a set of hundreds of straightforward but tedious and time consuming calculations, decided to just do it all once and for all and spend the time to put together a table of results for all of them. Of course, this helped his future work immensely. When he went to his PhD advisor to ask what he thought about publishing that table, the guy looked at him like he was crazy. Again, I don't remember the quote, but it was along the lines of "What you have there will give you a 1000% speed advantage pushing out papers in this field compared to your peers - you'd have to be crazy to share that sort of competitive advantage with everyone else when you could keep it to yourself, this is your golden ticket!" There is also the issue of preventing competitor (other researchers here) to get a free ride on your work - getting data, preparing them is a huge part of the researcher's work in some fields. Which brings to light very clearly the source of the problem - the ideal of academia is to advance the overall state of knowledge as fast as possible, but once you start using the word "competitor" in a serious way that actually has bearing on whether you publish something useful or not, that ideal has been perverted. Obviously it's the "publish or perish" mindset that causes this, and I absolutely understand why people would be tempted to see their supposed colleagues as competitors instead of collaborators (in the general sense, when they're not actively collaborating on a paper); it's one of the main reasons I decided not to go into academia, in fact, I saw too much political bullshit spewing about even in the harder fields like physics and math. I have no idea how to solve any of this, but it's a serious breakdown in the system, and I suspect it (publish-or-perish, not just information hiding) hinders the long term progression of academic knowledge in some of these fields by a large amount, not in the least because it rewards herd-like behavior and punishes exploration. That's another can of worms for another day, though...

by cdavid 16y ago

RaphaelWimmer 16y ago

This "getting a free ride on your work" is also called "standing on the shoulders of giants".

Lewisham 16y ago
(Disclaimer: I'm the author of the OP). Yes, but the person you are replying to is right to note the competitive aspects of research. A lot of people might say "well, this project is on-going, and I don't want people scooping/stealing it from me." It's a sad thing, but most research labs are in a a competitive relationship with other ones, and a citation is less useful in those oh-so-important tenure reviews than a publication. I wish it was more the "standing on the shoulders of giants"! That's partly why I didn't call on academics themselves to release code, but for some sort of authoritative institution instead, to level the field for everyone. That should remove the competitive aspects (I understand "that should" is a very naïve outlook ;) )

ewjordan 16y ago

Academics in some fields build up entire careers worth of work that all builds upon their "special sauce" super-secret dataset or software, which they've built up over many years, and while there might be enough information in principle in their papers to reproduce the data or results, it would be a thesis level project to actually do so. There's a story (unfortunately I forget where, perhaps someone else can jog my memory?) about a string theory PhD student who, after getting annoyed wasting months on a set of hundreds of straightforward but tedious and time consuming calculations, decided to just do it all once and for all and spend the time to put together a table of results for all of them. Of course, this helped his future work immensely. When he went to his PhD advisor to ask what he thought about publishing that table, the guy looked at him like he was crazy. Again, I don't remember the quote, but it was along the lines of "What you have there will give you a 1000% speed advantage pushing out papers in this field compared to your peers - you'd have to be crazy to share that sort of competitive advantage with everyone else when you could keep it to yourself, this is your golden ticket!" There is also the issue of preventing competitor (other researchers here) to get a free ride on your work - getting data, preparing them is a huge part of the researcher's work in some fields. Which brings to light very clearly the source of the problem - the ideal of academia is to advance the overall state of knowledge as fast as possible, but once you start using the word "competitor" in a serious way that actually has bearing on whether you publish something useful or not, that ideal has been perverted. Obviously it's the "publish or perish" mindset that causes this, and I absolutely understand why people would be tempted to see their supposed colleagues as competitors instead of collaborators (in the general sense, when they're not actively collaborating on a paper); it's one of the main reasons I decided not to go into academia, in fact, I saw too much political bullshit spewing about even in the harder fields like physics and math. I have no idea how to solve any of this, but it's a serious breakdown in the system, and I suspect it (publish-or-perish, not just information hiding) hinders the long term progression of academic knowledge in some of these fields by a large amount, not in the least because it rewards herd-like behavior and punishes exploration. That's another can of worms for another day, though...