3 ms·

This. Free Software doesn't need to be ubiquitous or even dominant. Most end-users don't want Free Software right now. As long as the Librem 5 becomes feasible,

This. Free Software doesn't need to be ubiquitous or even dominant. Most end-users don't want Free Software right now. As long as the Librem 5 becomes feasible, we can worry about market share later.

bduerst 9y ago
Isn't market share part of making the phone feasible? Economies of scale and all that.
- microcolonel 9y ago
  The costs of developing and commercializing the components in smartphones are borne by the Android, automotive, and other high performance embedded markets. They just need to make it viable enough to assemble the components and put them in an enclosure. So it's perfectly feasible to have a small market device like this if the market price covers the cost of buying chipsets off the shelf, and assembling them.
- ralmidani 9y ago
  Yes. However, we need to have a modest definition of "success".
jimmies 9y ago
When I looked back when Linux was something only enthusiasts used back 15 years ago, it does seem like so too. We never thought one day Linux would be dominant and people would go through great lengths to deal with GNU software, Firefox or OpenOffice. We counted Firefox market share when it was 1%, then 5% then 10%. Time changes and if a project actually is good, I believe the general attitude will change.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  It is anything but dominant on the desktop space, that ship has long gone. And on Android and ChromeOS, it isn't exposed to user space, so kind of irrelevant and can be changed at any moment, e.g. Fuchsia. The only place where Linux really made it, was replacing expensive proprietary UNIX servers with free (gratis) clone.
  - jimmies 9y ago
    Yep, but it doesn't matter what it technically is, the underlying principle is the same. We'd have a more secure, more understandable, more open system that replaces the proprietary ones. I have my Chromebook which runs Linux and GNU software. I have my cell phone which runs Linux and I can rebuild whatever part I desire. I have my server which runs Linux. A man can dream one day we'll have a phone with a baseband chip we can control, a RISC-V core we can program, no?
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      Surely, but as history proves since OpenMoko, that dream requires the buy-in of an OEM willing to keep the ship going, even when there is no wind to push the sails.
  - phaemon 9y ago
    The desktop ship certainly has sailed - it's lost the home market as people use phones and tablets now. > And on Android and ChromeOS, it isn't exposed to user space, so kind of irrelevant Sure, and I can run Windows applications on Wine, so Windows is kind of irrelevant. Don't be silly. > The only place where Linux really made it, was replacing expensive proprietary UNIX servers with free (gratis) clone. Except you're forgetting that these expensive UNIX servers were supposed to be replaced by Windows NT (later Windows Server) machines. So you'd have Windows at every level and could hire a point-and-grunt "sysadmin" to run it all at a much lower TCO. That's the grand vision that we've been spared. And you forgot about the embedded market. Hell, my TV runs Linux and I didn't even know (my wife chose it) until I was poking about in the menus and found a copy of the GPL. And you also omitted Cloud Servers, where Linux is hugely dominant. Oh, and Supercomputing where 499 of the Top500 Supercomputer run Linux. But yeah, apart from embedded, phones, tablets, laptops, servers, cloud servers and supercomputers...what has Linux ever done for us?
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      Linux was only adopted by being a gratis UNIX clone, with licenses that forced people to contribute back. Talk to me in a couple of years, now that everyone is migrating to BSD style licenses, while trying to replace the whole stack (clang, Fuchsia, ...). Had the *BSDs won against GNU/Linux, and I bet all proprietary UNIXes would still be around. A TV running Linux is worthless if there isn't a way to update the firmware, how do update yours?

This. Free Software doesn't need to be ubiquitous or even dominant. Most end-users don't want Free Software right now. As long as the Librem 5 becomes feasible, we can worry about market share later.

bduerst 9y ago

Isn't market share part of making the phone feasible? Economies of scale and all that.

microcolonel 9y ago
The costs of developing and commercializing the components in smartphones are borne by the Android, automotive, and other high performance embedded markets. They just need to make it viable enough to assemble the components and put them in an enclosure. So it's perfectly feasible to have a small market device like this if the market price covers the cost of buying chipsets off the shelf, and assembling them.
ralmidani 9y ago
Yes. However, we need to have a modest definition of "success".

jimmies 9y ago

When I looked back when Linux was something only enthusiasts used back 15 years ago, it does seem like so too. We never thought one day Linux would be dominant and people would go through great lengths to deal with GNU software, Firefox or OpenOffice. We counted Firefox market share when it was 1%, then 5% then 10%. Time changes and if a project actually is good, I believe the general attitude will change.

pjmlp 9y ago
It is anything but dominant on the desktop space, that ship has long gone. And on Android and ChromeOS, it isn't exposed to user space, so kind of irrelevant and can be changed at any moment, e.g. Fuchsia. The only place where Linux really made it, was replacing expensive proprietary UNIX servers with free (gratis) clone.
- jimmies 9y ago
  Yep, but it doesn't matter what it technically is, the underlying principle is the same. We'd have a more secure, more understandable, more open system that replaces the proprietary ones. I have my Chromebook which runs Linux and GNU software. I have my cell phone which runs Linux and I can rebuild whatever part I desire. I have my server which runs Linux. A man can dream one day we'll have a phone with a baseband chip we can control, a RISC-V core we can program, no?
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Surely, but as history proves since OpenMoko, that dream requires the buy-in of an OEM willing to keep the ship going, even when there is no wind to push the sails.
- phaemon 9y ago
  The desktop ship certainly has sailed - it's lost the home market as people use phones and tablets now. > And on Android and ChromeOS, it isn't exposed to user space, so kind of irrelevant Sure, and I can run Windows applications on Wine, so Windows is kind of irrelevant. Don't be silly. > The only place where Linux really made it, was replacing expensive proprietary UNIX servers with free (gratis) clone. Except you're forgetting that these expensive UNIX servers were supposed to be replaced by Windows NT (later Windows Server) machines. So you'd have Windows at every level and could hire a point-and-grunt "sysadmin" to run it all at a much lower TCO. That's the grand vision that we've been spared. And you forgot about the embedded market. Hell, my TV runs Linux and I didn't even know (my wife chose it) until I was poking about in the menus and found a copy of the GPL. And you also omitted Cloud Servers, where Linux is hugely dominant. Oh, and Supercomputing where 499 of the Top500 Supercomputer run Linux. But yeah, apart from embedded, phones, tablets, laptops, servers, cloud servers and supercomputers...what has Linux ever done for us?
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Linux was only adopted by being a gratis UNIX clone, with licenses that forced people to contribute back. Talk to me in a couple of years, now that everyone is migrating to BSD style licenses, while trying to replace the whole stack (clang, Fuchsia, ...). Had the *BSDs won against GNU/Linux, and I bet all proprietary UNIXes would still be around. A TV running Linux is worthless if there isn't a way to update the firmware, how do update yours?