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I fear this will be used to further arguments that programmers create a hostile environment. I know people in all occupations swear, but this puts the focus on

I fear this will be used to further arguments that programmers create a hostile environment. I know people in all occupations swear, but this puts the focus on it and allows people to quantify it. Just imagine the article: "One report showed that the f-word was used over 5,000 times in a single month. No other profession that's been measured has showed near this level of profane, unwelcome environment. How are stay-at-home parents supposed to feel welcome in this community?"

Klathmon 9y ago
Note: This kind of has less to do with your comment than I thought it was going to, but I feel it's still worth submitting. I think we as society will soon need to learn how to "forgive and forget". As technology becomes more ubiquitous, we are quickly getting to the point of having the majority of our time in this world recorded and stored permanently. Every mistake, every poor decision, every fashion fad, every comment, every choice seared into the never forgetting internet. We will need to move away from the idea that people can't change, and that something a person did 10 years ago means anything significant today. We should celebrate changing opinions, not attack someone for "waffling". We should be giving significantly less weight to actions and opinions far in the past, and more to things that happen more recently. There are commits on some projects i've worked on that I absolutely wouldn't word that way now. There are silly jokes and things like it in messages that I wouldn't do now. But my past is my past, and it honestly says very little about my future. I know people that are consistent with some things throughout their whole lives, and others that change drastically over the course of a year. It won't be pretty, but we will need to learn as a species that people make mistakes, and that shouldn't be a lifelong never-ending mark against someone, and in some cases the opposite is true! I lost a significant amount of money years ago because a hard drive died and my backup hard drive died as well, I now have a militant backup strategy which I am unwavering on because of that experience. I don't think we should shy away from tools like this, in fact I think they will be more important in the future. Expose people's "skeletons" that are hidden in plain sight. Show the world that it's not a big deal. It will hurt at first, but hopefully over time society will begin to change course, and "character assassination" style headlines will be a thing of the past when "Person did something bad 10 years ago" isn't a big deal since they have 9 years of "newer" history showing they are not the same as they were. People fear the unknown, people fear change. Showing them that the "foul programmer" is no different than they are is (in my opinion) a better way of dealing with the problem than hiding it and hoping the public doesn't find out.
taxpayer9 9y ago
I'm sorry, in what way is the word "fuck" creating a hostile environment? It depends on context. Compare this commit message: "Get the fucking login button working" "Fuck painbody, they don't know how to wire up a login button" I write a lot of commit messages with "offensive" language, but it's not directed at anybody and it's just to blow off steam. How are stay-at-home parents supposed to feel welcome in this community? Release the death grip on their pearls and realize that people swear and that there's no way a "bad word", on its own, can hurt you. Unless someone is directing harsh language at you, you have no reason to be offended by the word "fuck". Good god, it's just a word.
- SeanDav 9y ago
  > "Good god, it's just a word" Extremely naive to think that just because it is a word, it does not matter. A single word in the wrong place or at the wrong time, could destroy your career, make you a social pariah or even get you killed. Words are powerful.
  - taxpayer9 9y ago
    And yet somehow I don't think "fuck" in a public commit message is that big of a deal. We weren't talking about swear words destroying your career, making you a social pariah, or getting you killed. We're talking about tightasses getting a bee in their bonnets about "bad" words.
  - fuckword 9y ago
    And yet somehow I don't think "fuck" in a public commit message is that big of a deal. We weren't talking about swear words destroying your career, making you a social pariah, or getting you killed. We're talking about tightasses getting a bee in their bonnets about "bad" words.
    - grzm 9y ago
      Yet you do care enough to create a new account just to post this comment, complete with dedicated account name. If you truly don't think it's such a big deal, why post in this way? Why not stand behind your comment with a non-throwaway username?
cr0sh 9y ago
> No other profession that's been measured has showed near this level of profane, unwelcome environment. Author obviously has never worked a blue collar job...

Klathmon 9y ago

Note: This kind of has less to do with your comment than I thought it was going to, but I feel it's still worth submitting. I think we as society will soon need to learn how to "forgive and forget". As technology becomes more ubiquitous, we are quickly getting to the point of having the majority of our time in this world recorded and stored permanently. Every mistake, every poor decision, every fashion fad, every comment, every choice seared into the never forgetting internet. We will need to move away from the idea that people can't change, and that something a person did 10 years ago means anything significant today. We should celebrate changing opinions, not attack someone for "waffling". We should be giving significantly less weight to actions and opinions far in the past, and more to things that happen more recently. There are commits on some projects i've worked on that I absolutely wouldn't word that way now. There are silly jokes and things like it in messages that I wouldn't do now. But my past is my past, and it honestly says very little about my future. I know people that are consistent with some things throughout their whole lives, and others that change drastically over the course of a year. It won't be pretty, but we will need to learn as a species that people make mistakes, and that shouldn't be a lifelong never-ending mark against someone, and in some cases the opposite is true! I lost a significant amount of money years ago because a hard drive died and my backup hard drive died as well, I now have a militant backup strategy which I am unwavering on because of that experience. I don't think we should shy away from tools like this, in fact I think they will be more important in the future. Expose people's "skeletons" that are hidden in plain sight. Show the world that it's not a big deal. It will hurt at first, but hopefully over time society will begin to change course, and "character assassination" style headlines will be a thing of the past when "Person did something bad 10 years ago" isn't a big deal since they have 9 years of "newer" history showing they are not the same as they were. People fear the unknown, people fear change. Showing them that the "foul programmer" is no different than they are is (in my opinion) a better way of dealing with the problem than hiding it and hoping the public doesn't find out.

taxpayer9 9y ago

I'm sorry, in what way is the word "fuck" creating a hostile environment? It depends on context. Compare this commit message: "Get the fucking login button working" "Fuck painbody, they don't know how to wire up a login button" I write a lot of commit messages with "offensive" language, but it's not directed at anybody and it's just to blow off steam. How are stay-at-home parents supposed to feel welcome in this community? Release the death grip on their pearls and realize that people swear and that there's no way a "bad word", on its own, can hurt you. Unless someone is directing harsh language at you, you have no reason to be offended by the word "fuck". Good god, it's just a word.

SeanDav 9y ago
> "Good god, it's just a word" Extremely naive to think that just because it is a word, it does not matter. A single word in the wrong place or at the wrong time, could destroy your career, make you a social pariah or even get you killed. Words are powerful.
- taxpayer9 9y ago
  And yet somehow I don't think "fuck" in a public commit message is that big of a deal. We weren't talking about swear words destroying your career, making you a social pariah, or getting you killed. We're talking about tightasses getting a bee in their bonnets about "bad" words.
- fuckword 9y ago
  And yet somehow I don't think "fuck" in a public commit message is that big of a deal. We weren't talking about swear words destroying your career, making you a social pariah, or getting you killed. We're talking about tightasses getting a bee in their bonnets about "bad" words.
  - grzm 9y ago
    Yet you do care enough to create a new account just to post this comment, complete with dedicated account name. If you truly don't think it's such a big deal, why post in this way? Why not stand behind your comment with a non-throwaway username?

cr0sh 9y ago

> No other profession that's been measured has showed near this level of profane, unwelcome environment. Author obviously has never worked a blue collar job...