6 ms·

If a Ubuntu in 2017 isn't user friendly I really don't know what that phrase is even supposed to mean.

by herbst 9y ago

pjmlp 9y ago
I lost access to my netbook $HOME, when Ubuntu just refused to acknowledge the existence the file system after freezing in X. It required a boot direct into the GRUB root console and running fsck from there. Not something that regular macOS and Windows users expect as user friendly.
- hollander 9y ago
  I've helped people who lost access to their Windows 7 home directory. It didn't mean they ended up in commandline mode, but it meant their home folder was recreated from scratch. Many things didn't work anymore. I bet 99% of Windows users can't solve that by themselves. I don't see any difference with your problem. The problem you describe is bad as you can't use the computer at all, while my problem created a false illusion that the home folder was OK as it was still there. That the old one was renamed, made invisible, and then the new one got the old name - didn't help at all.
isolli 9y ago
Just one example: every few weeks I need to manually remove old images as described here [0], otherwise security updates won't be installed. Four versions and four years later, it's still not fixed. [0] https://askubuntu.com/questions/298487/not-enough-free-disk-space-when-upgrading https://askubuntu.com/questions/298487/not-enough-free-disk-...
OoooooooO 9y ago
Ubuntu did not enable the energy saving options by default on my notebook and did not install the wifi drivers out of the box. Which was a "bit" painful because the office is wifi only and getting online then is impossible. Had to hunt down the driver, put it on a stick and install them. Never again. And the laptop was 5+ years old ...
eduren 9y ago
The unfortunate reality is that the most friendly thing one can do for users is never ask them to change.
CaptSpify 9y ago
As someone that only works on linux systems.... The state of Linux is not great. We still can't get the basics like sound, wifi, etc out of the box. I get why it's a problem, and it's generally not the fault of Linux devs, but it's still a problem that turns people away. I really want to see Linux take over on the desktop, but turning a blind eye to our problems is a poor way to do it.
- unethical_ban 9y ago
  >We still can't get the basics like sound, wifi, etc out of the box. Complete and total fabrication. Video for gaming is still trouble, but I have no more issue with Linux wifi or sound output than I do with Windows. In fact, Linux networking to me is better than Windows.
  - richardknop 9y ago
    Depends on your device. I have had issues on some laptops, other laptops worked flawlessly. I know this is anecdote but a lot of people share this anecdote.
    - YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 9y ago
      What was the last Linux laptop you installed a Windows on? (edit: removed unnecessary remark.) The last laptop I did a clean install of Windows (7) on was a HP netbook. Even though it was a Windows machine, and I used their Windows install disc, it was a miserable experience (because I didn't have the separate driver disc). Not only did not the WLAN work, neither did the Ethernet port: the only way to get online was by using my phone as a Bluetooth dial-up – luckily I had a Symbian device you could do that with. And even then, Windows Update was of no help – I had to navigate to HP's website to download the very separate driver packages for WLAN and Ethernet functionality (and any other packages I can no longer remember). By the way, with Ubuntu connectivity worked fine out-of-the-box – which is lucky, because although I have used Linux for over a decade as my daily driver, I have never had to install WLAN drivers for one, and probably couldn't. (Nothing could save the slow Atom from offering woeful user experience, though. One of the worst deals I ever had as far as computers go.) edit: wording and clarification
dbmikus 9y ago
I just installed the latest version of Linux Mint and the default graphics card driver had a bug that caused my entire system to freeze after a few hours of inactivity. To be able to replace Apple or Microsoft, not only do you need user friendliness for how the machine works, but you also need to get rid of all the miscellaneous tech and configuration problems that crop up. As I understand it, Linux laptop sleep/suspend/hibernate is still a big PITA.
- hesarenu 9y ago
  I am on high Sierra. Just today I clicked on an update which broke while updating. First it was displaying Mac os not found. Restart again. Restart would hang up and say some installer is missing. I had to Google, run some commands to eventually make it work. On clean of windows I used to download drivers from ubuntu since windows did not load them.
- herbst 9y ago
  To be fair the Mint maintainers are well known for doing a bad job for a while now. Why they still tend to be recommended is a mystery to me.
thibran 9y ago
Publishing software – especially close source software – for Linux has always been, and still is, a huge pain. Beside all the nightmarish things you have to do to package something. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PmHRSeA2c8&feature=youtu.be&t=5m40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PmHRSeA2c8&feature=youtu.be...
bduerst 9y ago
I use Ubuntu but after spending a day trying to fix display drivers I can confirm it's not user friendly. An OS is more than just the software, but the support received from other software/hardware companies.
- herbst 9y ago
  Very good example actually. Take a look at driver issues within the Windows "Support" community forums. Then do the same with Ubuntu or any Linux really. For a more enterprice thought, try giving Microsoft a call with a Technical issue and then do the same to the Ubuntu Enterprise team. One is obviously better than the other in this field. Feel free to decide yourself

If a Ubuntu in 2017 isn't user friendly I really don't know what that phrase is even supposed to mean.

by herbst 9y ago

If a Ubuntu in 2017 isn't user friendly I really don't know what that phrase is even supposed to mean.

I lost access to my netbook $HOME, when Ubuntu just refused to acknowledge the existence the file system after freezing in X. It required a boot direct into the GRUB root console and running fsck from there. Not something that regular macOS and Windows users expect as user friendly.

hollander 9y ago
I've helped people who lost access to their Windows 7 home directory. It didn't mean they ended up in commandline mode, but it meant their home folder was recreated from scratch. Many things didn't work anymore. I bet 99% of Windows users can't solve that by themselves. I don't see any difference with your problem. The problem you describe is bad as you can't use the computer at all, while my problem created a false illusion that the home folder was OK as it was still there. That the old one was renamed, made invisible, and then the new one got the old name - didn't help at all.

isolli 9y ago

Just one example: every few weeks I need to manually remove old images as described here [0], otherwise security updates won't be installed. Four versions and four years later, it's still not fixed. [0] https://askubuntu.com/questions/298487/not-enough-free-disk-space-when-upgrading https://askubuntu.com/questions/298487/not-enough-free-disk-...

OoooooooO 9y ago

Ubuntu did not enable the energy saving options by default on my notebook and did not install the wifi drivers out of the box. Which was a "bit" painful because the office is wifi only and getting online then is impossible. Had to hunt down the driver, put it on a stick and install them. Never again. And the laptop was 5+ years old ...

eduren 9y ago

The unfortunate reality is that the most friendly thing one can do for users is never ask them to change.

CaptSpify 9y ago

As someone that only works on linux systems.... The state of Linux is not great. We still can't get the basics like sound, wifi, etc out of the box. I get why it's a problem, and it's generally not the fault of Linux devs, but it's still a problem that turns people away. I really want to see Linux take over on the desktop, but turning a blind eye to our problems is a poor way to do it.

unethical_ban 9y ago
>We still can't get the basics like sound, wifi, etc out of the box. Complete and total fabrication. Video for gaming is still trouble, but I have no more issue with Linux wifi or sound output than I do with Windows. In fact, Linux networking to me is better than Windows.
- richardknop 9y ago
  Depends on your device. I have had issues on some laptops, other laptops worked flawlessly. I know this is anecdote but a lot of people share this anecdote.
  - YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 9y ago
    What was the last Linux laptop you installed a Windows on? (edit: removed unnecessary remark.) The last laptop I did a clean install of Windows (7) on was a HP netbook. Even though it was a Windows machine, and I used their Windows install disc, it was a miserable experience (because I didn't have the separate driver disc). Not only did not the WLAN work, neither did the Ethernet port: the only way to get online was by using my phone as a Bluetooth dial-up – luckily I had a Symbian device you could do that with. And even then, Windows Update was of no help – I had to navigate to HP's website to download the very separate driver packages for WLAN and Ethernet functionality (and any other packages I can no longer remember). By the way, with Ubuntu connectivity worked fine out-of-the-box – which is lucky, because although I have used Linux for over a decade as my daily driver, I have never had to install WLAN drivers for one, and probably couldn't. (Nothing could save the slow Atom from offering woeful user experience, though. One of the worst deals I ever had as far as computers go.) edit: wording and clarification

dbmikus 9y ago

I just installed the latest version of Linux Mint and the default graphics card driver had a bug that caused my entire system to freeze after a few hours of inactivity. To be able to replace Apple or Microsoft, not only do you need user friendliness for how the machine works, but you also need to get rid of all the miscellaneous tech and configuration problems that crop up. As I understand it, Linux laptop sleep/suspend/hibernate is still a big PITA.

hesarenu 9y ago
I am on high Sierra. Just today I clicked on an update which broke while updating. First it was displaying Mac os not found. Restart again. Restart would hang up and say some installer is missing. I had to Google, run some commands to eventually make it work. On clean of windows I used to download drivers from ubuntu since windows did not load them.
herbst 9y ago
To be fair the Mint maintainers are well known for doing a bad job for a while now. Why they still tend to be recommended is a mystery to me.

thibran 9y ago

Publishing software – especially close source software – for Linux has always been, and still is, a huge pain. Beside all the nightmarish things you have to do to package something. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PmHRSeA2c8&feature=youtu.be&t=5m40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PmHRSeA2c8&feature=youtu.be...

bduerst 9y ago

I use Ubuntu but after spending a day trying to fix display drivers I can confirm it's not user friendly. An OS is more than just the software, but the support received from other software/hardware companies.

herbst 9y ago
Very good example actually. Take a look at driver issues within the Windows "Support" community forums. Then do the same with Ubuntu or any Linux really. For a more enterprice thought, try giving Microsoft a call with a Technical issue and then do the same to the Ubuntu Enterprise team. One is obviously better than the other in this field. Feel free to decide yourself