4 ms·

It is my understanding that MS has given up on ARM. Sooner or later there will be x86 based phones, which partly solves the "app" problem. They just run a regul

by jk2323 9y ago

It is my understanding that MS has given up on ARM. Sooner or later there will be x86 based phones, which partly solves the "app" problem. They just run a regular windows on the phone.

brohee 9y ago
That doesn't make much sense, apps made for mouse and keyboard on a large screen won't magically become usable on a small touchscreen...
- macintux 9y ago
  That's always been a weakness with Microsoft's strategy. First with a stylus for Windows Mobile, later with the ribbon in Office.
charlesdm 9y ago
That UX will just be amazing
criddell 9y ago
> Sooner or later there will be x86 based phones Sure, but right now Apple and their ARM designs are running away from everybody else. Plus Windows is terrible from a security and power consumption point of view. Can Microsoft fix that without breaking everything? I think MS is conceding the entire phone space. Full screen form factors (like laptops is and large tablets) are very important but for small devices I don't think they can compete.
- Const-me 9y ago
  > Windows is terrible from a security and power consumption point of view Windows is way ahead in both security and power efficiency. About security, here’s an example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10410833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10410833 In Windows, clipboard access was restricted to foreground app since WP7. About power efficiency, WP is very restrictive on what apps can do in background. See this: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh202942(v=vs.105).aspx#BKMK_ConstraintsforallScheduledTaskTypes https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh2029...
  - criddell 9y ago
    I'm talking about x86 Windows. Windows Phone is dead. The fact that a viable mobile OS has to be restrictive about background operations is exactly what I was talking about when I said they can't fix it without breaking everything.
    - NiveaGeForce 9y ago
      But they already fixed it https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15434931 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15434931
- NiveaGeForce 9y ago
  > Plus Windows is terrible from a security and power consumption point of view. Can Microsoft fix that without breaking everything? Nonsense https://np.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/74xc2z/windows_and_efficiency/ https://np.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/74xc2z/windows_an... https://np.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/6ifyxq/spotify_for_windows_10_available_now_in_the/dj5zq9e/ https://np.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/6ifyxq/spotify_for_...
- collinmanderson 9y ago
  Exactly. Microsoft is abandoning phone, but I imagine they'll still exist in the business-tablet area.
  - zyme 9y ago
    They Brought back WinRT, or rather this month's new Desktop RTM build has an ARM64 version. It'll probably run low-power low-cost tablet/phablets, maybe even be put on a phone if 10 starts seeing more metro apps at some date. I mean that capability is where the desktop version of windows keeps getting more features matching; each version of Phone and Desktop have been more and more like each-other.
pjc50 9y ago
I've got one in my pocket right now: Asus Zenfone 2. It just runs regular Android. Even has an "Intel Inside" logo on the back. Windows has never had great dynamic scaling, so trying to run regular apps on a phone would be a nightmare of tiny click targets. Metro apps would scale better, but that was the whole point of UWP. IMO they've given up slightly too early. They could have written an Android-on-Windows compatibility layer, or various other things, but Microsoft just can't handle a market where they aren't dominant. The only way they could leverage their dominance would be to break Exchange ActiveSync and say "if you want your calendar on your phone, it has to be a Windows phone". And Intel have pulled back from the low-power area (mobiles, Edison) because they're not competitive there. Maybe the same "can't function when not market leader" problem.
- nathanasmith 9y ago
  > They could have written an Android-on-Windows compatibility layer MS had Android emulation[0] in the works for Windows Mobile 10 but then decided to cancel it citing it was "unnecessary". [0]https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-officially-cancels-project-astoria-bridge-porting-android-apps-windows-10-mobile https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-officially-cancels-...
- slinkyavenger 9y ago
  > Android-on-Windows compatibility layer This was one of the big mistakes made by OS/2 when they were competing against Windows. They created a compatibility layer for Windows applications, which meant that developers never wrote native apps for their platform, leading to a very poor user experience and gave Windows a leg-up on its competition. I doubt Microsoft wants to make the same mistake.

by jk2323 9y ago

It is my understanding that MS has given up on ARM. Sooner or later there will be x86 based phones, which partly solves the "app" problem. They just run a regular windows on the phone.

brohee 9y ago

That doesn't make much sense, apps made for mouse and keyboard on a large screen won't magically become usable on a small touchscreen...

macintux 9y ago
That's always been a weakness with Microsoft's strategy. First with a stylus for Windows Mobile, later with the ribbon in Office.

charlesdm 9y ago

That UX will just be amazing

criddell 9y ago

> Sooner or later there will be x86 based phones Sure, but right now Apple and their ARM designs are running away from everybody else. Plus Windows is terrible from a security and power consumption point of view. Can Microsoft fix that without breaking everything? I think MS is conceding the entire phone space. Full screen form factors (like laptops is and large tablets) are very important but for small devices I don't think they can compete.

Const-me 9y ago
> Windows is terrible from a security and power consumption point of view Windows is way ahead in both security and power efficiency. About security, here’s an example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10410833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10410833 In Windows, clipboard access was restricted to foreground app since WP7. About power efficiency, WP is very restrictive on what apps can do in background. See this: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh202942(v=vs.105).aspx#BKMK_ConstraintsforallScheduledTaskTypes https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh2029...
- criddell 9y ago
  I'm talking about x86 Windows. Windows Phone is dead. The fact that a viable mobile OS has to be restrictive about background operations is exactly what I was talking about when I said they can't fix it without breaking everything.
  - NiveaGeForce 9y ago
    But they already fixed it https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15434931 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15434931
NiveaGeForce 9y ago
> Plus Windows is terrible from a security and power consumption point of view. Can Microsoft fix that without breaking everything? Nonsense https://np.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/74xc2z/windows_and_efficiency/ https://np.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/74xc2z/windows_an... https://np.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/6ifyxq/spotify_for_windows_10_available_now_in_the/dj5zq9e/ https://np.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/6ifyxq/spotify_for_...
collinmanderson 9y ago
Exactly. Microsoft is abandoning phone, but I imagine they'll still exist in the business-tablet area.
- zyme 9y ago
  They Brought back WinRT, or rather this month's new Desktop RTM build has an ARM64 version. It'll probably run low-power low-cost tablet/phablets, maybe even be put on a phone if 10 starts seeing more metro apps at some date. I mean that capability is where the desktop version of windows keeps getting more features matching; each version of Phone and Desktop have been more and more like each-other.

pjc50 9y ago

I've got one in my pocket right now: Asus Zenfone 2. It just runs regular Android. Even has an "Intel Inside" logo on the back. Windows has never had great dynamic scaling, so trying to run regular apps on a phone would be a nightmare of tiny click targets. Metro apps would scale better, but that was the whole point of UWP. IMO they've given up slightly too early. They could have written an Android-on-Windows compatibility layer, or various other things, but Microsoft just can't handle a market where they aren't dominant. The only way they could leverage their dominance would be to break Exchange ActiveSync and say "if you want your calendar on your phone, it has to be a Windows phone". And Intel have pulled back from the low-power area (mobiles, Edison) because they're not competitive there. Maybe the same "can't function when not market leader" problem.

nathanasmith 9y ago
> They could have written an Android-on-Windows compatibility layer MS had Android emulation[0] in the works for Windows Mobile 10 but then decided to cancel it citing it was "unnecessary". [0]https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-officially-cancels-project-astoria-bridge-porting-android-apps-windows-10-mobile https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-officially-cancels-...
slinkyavenger 9y ago
> Android-on-Windows compatibility layer This was one of the big mistakes made by OS/2 when they were competing against Windows. They created a compatibility layer for Windows applications, which meant that developers never wrote native apps for their platform, leading to a very poor user experience and gave Windows a leg-up on its competition. I doubt Microsoft wants to make the same mistake.