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Usually I'm on the hook for being open minded about programming languages in this forum, but I'm putting my foot down. I really hope at some point this entire

Usually I'm on the hook for being open minded about programming languages in this forum, but I'm putting my foot down. I really hope at some point this entire universe gets liberated from Python at some point. Even R would be more palatable. Both these examples are awful, error prone, obfuscated, and beholden to Python's difficulties with large sums of data.

walrus 9y ago
Can you give a sketch of how you would like these examples to look? Any language is fine; you can pretend that libraries for GPGPU, backprop, and gradient-based optimization already exist. I tried to do so myself and couldn't come up with anything significantly better, but I've been writing Python for a long time and might just be stuck in a local minimum :)
- Gtifn 9y ago
  https://fluxml.github.io/ https://fluxml.github.io/ In julia
- KirinDave 9y ago
  Sure. Another comment has already pointed out that Julia framework. I'll relink it for completeness: https://fluxml.github.io https://fluxml.github.io You can also look at Haskell's Grenade examples: https://github.com/HuwCampbell/grenade https://github.com/HuwCampbell/grenade Fundamentally different because the notion of what the compiler should be doing is fundamentally different, and the notion of how data should be input is somewhat different.
MihailBurduja 9y ago
I bet you love Perl
- KirinDave 9y ago
  No. Julia and Haskell are my go-to suggestions. But I'd even take Scala at this point, and you could do worse than Clojure. Python code isn't especially "ugly" as in line noise. It's ugly in the sense that it's a deluge of outdated and ineffective programming paradigms that maximize the difficulty of writing code.
  - aeoost 9y ago
    I got fed up with up with Python and switched to F#. My main issue was the lack of static typing made testing and debugging a major timesink and headache. It's early days but so far F# it ticks all my boxes and I'm finding it an extremely nice language to write in. It is just as terse as Python (due to type inference) but statically typed, and there is a great plugin Ionide for VSCode which makes for a really polished development environment. Plan is to use Microsoft's CNTK for ML/DL stuff. For anyone frustrated with Python's duck typing, I highly recommend you check out F#.
hueving 9y ago
Can you turn your comment into something productive by showing a code example front another language that handles these cases better?
- Gtifn 9y ago
  Julia: https://fluxml.github.io/ https://fluxml.github.io/
- KirinDave 9y ago
  Other people will. But it is productive to say, "An excessively declarative style has been considered bad in programming for over thirty years." That is reminding people this is a largely solved problem that the industry refuses to embrace because our legacy rube-goldberg contraption of software refuses to accept ever abandoning anything in favor of simplicity. A great example: Why are both of these examples using the error prone pattern of explicit bounds iteration?
matasuge 9y ago
go back to your cave and write some assembly you elitist neanderthal
bsg75 9y ago
Any example of better approaches in R?

walrus 9y ago

Can you give a sketch of how you would like these examples to look? Any language is fine; you can pretend that libraries for GPGPU, backprop, and gradient-based optimization already exist. I tried to do so myself and couldn't come up with anything significantly better, but I've been writing Python for a long time and might just be stuck in a local minimum :)

Gtifn 9y ago
https://fluxml.github.io/ https://fluxml.github.io/ In julia
KirinDave 9y ago
Sure. Another comment has already pointed out that Julia framework. I'll relink it for completeness: https://fluxml.github.io https://fluxml.github.io You can also look at Haskell's Grenade examples: https://github.com/HuwCampbell/grenade https://github.com/HuwCampbell/grenade Fundamentally different because the notion of what the compiler should be doing is fundamentally different, and the notion of how data should be input is somewhat different.

MihailBurduja 9y ago

I bet you love Perl

KirinDave 9y ago
No. Julia and Haskell are my go-to suggestions. But I'd even take Scala at this point, and you could do worse than Clojure. Python code isn't especially "ugly" as in line noise. It's ugly in the sense that it's a deluge of outdated and ineffective programming paradigms that maximize the difficulty of writing code.
- aeoost 9y ago
  I got fed up with up with Python and switched to F#. My main issue was the lack of static typing made testing and debugging a major timesink and headache. It's early days but so far F# it ticks all my boxes and I'm finding it an extremely nice language to write in. It is just as terse as Python (due to type inference) but statically typed, and there is a great plugin Ionide for VSCode which makes for a really polished development environment. Plan is to use Microsoft's CNTK for ML/DL stuff. For anyone frustrated with Python's duck typing, I highly recommend you check out F#.

hueving 9y ago

Can you turn your comment into something productive by showing a code example front another language that handles these cases better?

Gtifn 9y ago
Julia: https://fluxml.github.io/ https://fluxml.github.io/
KirinDave 9y ago
Other people will. But it is productive to say, "An excessively declarative style has been considered bad in programming for over thirty years." That is reminding people this is a largely solved problem that the industry refuses to embrace because our legacy rube-goldberg contraption of software refuses to accept ever abandoning anything in favor of simplicity. A great example: Why are both of these examples using the error prone pattern of explicit bounds iteration?

matasuge 9y ago

go back to your cave and write some assembly you elitist neanderthal

bsg75 9y ago

Any example of better approaches in R?