5 ms·

> My professional network is also weak. Nobody I know is looking to hire software developers. I think my reputation works against applying to large companies.

> My professional network is also weak. Nobody I know is looking to hire software developers. I think my reputation works against applying to large companies. Being honest, I don't know if the degree itself is going to help you. What's going to help you is the networking and getting real-world experience. Perhaps going back to college might help with that, but I also think you could equally get it elsewhere. When you submit your resume to a large tech company on their job site the chances of it getting to a hiring manager are exceptionally slim. If you actually know the hiring manager - or know somebody who knows the hiring manager - your chances are exponentially higher. If your background is non-traditional the absolute best thing you can do is seek out and network with other engineers, many of whom will be more than happy to help mentor and provide references for you. > and see myself as a mediocre developer. So what are your thoughts about returning to college and doing it "the proper way"? A CS degree doesn't qualify you as a good developer, in the same way that my film degree doesn't qualify me as a good film-maker. I must have done several hundred interviews when I was working at Apple, and I don't think I really paid attention to the candidate's major at all: it was never a good indicator of performance. I can't tell you whether going back to school for a CS degree is or isn't the right decision: what I can tell you is that if you do go back you should absolutely concentrate on networking, building connections, and getting as much practical dev experience as possible. All of these will be far more valuable to you when it comes to getting a job than the academic content of the degree itself.

djellybeans 9y ago
Right now, what I am doing is going to developer meetups, talk to them after the seminar is over and get their business cards. Then I reach out to them and ask if they know if their company's hiring. Sometimes I get put in the interview process and fail, but most of the time I hear that they don't have anything appropriate for me. So it's not much just considering college education for its classes as I am for the reputation of going to one of the better ones. Joining academic clubs, going through applying to internships. The path of least resistance to getting $BIG_CORP on your resume is by interning as a student. It's easier to get in that way than as an experience developer, where you'll be evaluated more harshly. I mean, would most MOOC's provide students access to career fairs and internships at $BIG_CORP? Also, as someone approaching middle-age, I would be taking my classes more seriously than many students 10 years younger than me.
- objclxt 9y ago
  > for the reputation of going to one of the better ones. > as someone approaching middle-age, I would be taking my classes more seriously than many students 10 years younger than me. I've been to the CS departments at Stanford, Harvard, MIT, CalTech, and the like. The competition is brutal. For every student that's slacking off there is another doing everything they can to keep their 4.0 GPA. Don't kid yourself that your fellow students won't be taking their classes incredibly seriously. > The path of least resistance to getting $BIG_CORP on your resume is by interning as a student. It's easier to get in that way than as an experience developer, where you'll be evaluated more harshly. I promise you this isn't true. Google gets around 50,000 applications for 1,500 internships. That's a 3% acceptance rate. You will be competing for internships against wunderkinds who have been coding all their life. Have you asked yourself what you would do if you spent several years getting a CS degree and didn't get the internship you were looking for at a big tech company? Because that's statistically the most likely outcome. You say you've had interviews and failed: do you think a CS degree would help you pass? Because having been in hundreds of technical interviews I can say that most of the things being tested can be picked up in a few months of prep. Networking is more than taking a business card. It's building relationships, friendships, and connections. It is hard work, and not everyone can do it. If you do go back to school, I would absolutely concentrate on building as many of these connections as you can.
- nether 9y ago
  > Also, as someone approaching middle-age, I would be taking my classes more seriously than many students 10 years younger than me. Son, this isn't Animal House. Even at mid-tier universities, most students in engineering programs have been working hard their entire lives. Do you have the stamina to pound Red Bull for consecutive all-nighters? These kids do. Some of them have been amped on Adderall to eke out minimum GPA improvements since 10th grade. Engineering students are machines.
ccdev 9y ago
>When you submit your resume to a large tech company on their job site the chances of it getting to a hiring manager are exceptionally slim. If you actually know the hiring manager - or know somebody who knows the hiring manager - your chances are exponentially higher. This is just from hearsay and personal anecdotes, but many people have experienced that getting attention from big tech companies comes a lot easier as a new grad than as as a more experienced developer a couple years since getting their degree. College makes it pretty easy to build up a connection to larger companies. If you intern at X, then X is much more likely to give you a job offer. My view is that college is just a means to an end. I agree that just getting a degree doesn't prove much. But what you do in your journey to graduation- that really matters. Good universities provide many doorways to networking than you don't get as easily afterwards. And it's not just of the professional kind either. How many people have stated how much harder it is to make new friends after college?
- probinso 9y ago
  When looking for schools, find ones with coop programs. They bake internships into their curriculum.

djellybeans 9y ago

Right now, what I am doing is going to developer meetups, talk to them after the seminar is over and get their business cards. Then I reach out to them and ask if they know if their company's hiring. Sometimes I get put in the interview process and fail, but most of the time I hear that they don't have anything appropriate for me. So it's not much just considering college education for its classes as I am for the reputation of going to one of the better ones. Joining academic clubs, going through applying to internships. The path of least resistance to getting $BIG_CORP on your resume is by interning as a student. It's easier to get in that way than as an experience developer, where you'll be evaluated more harshly. I mean, would most MOOC's provide students access to career fairs and internships at $BIG_CORP? Also, as someone approaching middle-age, I would be taking my classes more seriously than many students 10 years younger than me.

objclxt 9y ago
> for the reputation of going to one of the better ones. > as someone approaching middle-age, I would be taking my classes more seriously than many students 10 years younger than me. I've been to the CS departments at Stanford, Harvard, MIT, CalTech, and the like. The competition is brutal. For every student that's slacking off there is another doing everything they can to keep their 4.0 GPA. Don't kid yourself that your fellow students won't be taking their classes incredibly seriously. > The path of least resistance to getting $BIG_CORP on your resume is by interning as a student. It's easier to get in that way than as an experience developer, where you'll be evaluated more harshly. I promise you this isn't true. Google gets around 50,000 applications for 1,500 internships. That's a 3% acceptance rate. You will be competing for internships against wunderkinds who have been coding all their life. Have you asked yourself what you would do if you spent several years getting a CS degree and didn't get the internship you were looking for at a big tech company? Because that's statistically the most likely outcome. You say you've had interviews and failed: do you think a CS degree would help you pass? Because having been in hundreds of technical interviews I can say that most of the things being tested can be picked up in a few months of prep. Networking is more than taking a business card. It's building relationships, friendships, and connections. It is hard work, and not everyone can do it. If you do go back to school, I would absolutely concentrate on building as many of these connections as you can.
nether 9y ago
> Also, as someone approaching middle-age, I would be taking my classes more seriously than many students 10 years younger than me. Son, this isn't Animal House. Even at mid-tier universities, most students in engineering programs have been working hard their entire lives. Do you have the stamina to pound Red Bull for consecutive all-nighters? These kids do. Some of them have been amped on Adderall to eke out minimum GPA improvements since 10th grade. Engineering students are machines.

ccdev 9y ago

>When you submit your resume to a large tech company on their job site the chances of it getting to a hiring manager are exceptionally slim. If you actually know the hiring manager - or know somebody who knows the hiring manager - your chances are exponentially higher. This is just from hearsay and personal anecdotes, but many people have experienced that getting attention from big tech companies comes a lot easier as a new grad than as as a more experienced developer a couple years since getting their degree. College makes it pretty easy to build up a connection to larger companies. If you intern at X, then X is much more likely to give you a job offer. My view is that college is just a means to an end. I agree that just getting a degree doesn't prove much. But what you do in your journey to graduation- that really matters. Good universities provide many doorways to networking than you don't get as easily afterwards. And it's not just of the professional kind either. How many people have stated how much harder it is to make new friends after college?

probinso 9y ago
When looking for schools, find ones with coop programs. They bake internships into their curriculum.