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Database: some proprietary key-value thing. No performance descriptions. API documentation that looks written for people who are dimly familiar with APIs. "Dyna

Database: some proprietary key-value thing. No performance descriptions. API documentation that looks written for people who are dimly familiar with APIs. "Dynamic Pages": whatevery CMS-ish CRUD frontend. "User Input": forms that dump data into that database. It doesn't get better from there. This is even more of a lock-in trap than Wix (and its similar competitors, like SquareSpace) usually is. These people want to own you and whatever you're making. Avoid.

CJefferson 9y ago
Yes, I evaluated a bunch of website creators (including wix and squarespace) and I ended up at wordpress.com because it seemed to be the only system that offered easy(ish) WYSIWYG website creation, while giving me confidence I could get my website out and still edit/host it even if wordpress.com closed tomorrow.
- mercer 9y ago
  I'd say as long as you avoid installing plugins without careful consideration, that's a pretty good choice. It's trivial to move your site to pretty much any crappy host, and if performance becomes an issue you could always 1) create cleaned-up custom theme version (shouldn't be too expensive) or pay someone for it, 2) add some form of caching.
coldtea 9y ago
Obviously it's not for people who know about databases or want to know. The same way Hypercard was not for C programmers.
- cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
  That's not exactly an adequate analogy. The world is a different place now than when Hypercard was released. People have been burned too many times to not be skeptical about using a proprietary piece of technology to power their app.
  - sidlls 9y ago
    There are plenty of people even in tech industry rich areas like the Bay Area who don't know or care about that sort of thing. All they want is to just have something that works for them well enough. Now, my experience trying to use sites built with Wix has been uniformly terrible. If I see "wix" anything I simply leave. But that doesn't invalidate the use case.
nunez 9y ago
I mean, if you actually know how to make and upkeep a website, then, yeah, Wix and SS are bad options. But they’re great for my mom who runs a business but doesn’t have time to learn how to make a website
- eropple 9y ago
  Your mom doesn't need a database or "dynamic pages". And your mom isn't going to be able to set it up without help.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Nobody running a small business needs a database, or to render pages built from them? I can guarantee you that's not true. As for help, there's a big difference between someone who "knows Wix" and someone who can install, configure and maintain a full site, even if using off-the-shelf software.
ioquatix 9y ago
When I see "tables" from a "database" in a web browser, I have a good laugh. I know it's not that impressive but our smallest non-trivial "table" has 100,000 records and our largest over a billion. Good luck trying to use a web UI to manage that. Parse was like this too - and they had a 1000-record limit in their APIs. Good times.
- flukus 9y ago
  It seems like just about every javascript table library I come across expects the filtering, ordering and paging to be done client side after retrieving all the data. The make for some nice looking demo's but then I have to explain to management (or other devs sadly) why things are so slow.
- stuaxo 9y ago
  Interesting. Well, there are many jobs that deal with smaller data. Sometimes they even want the full fat full-stack setup with CDN etc, and it turns out there will only ever be like 300 records.
synicalx 9y ago
Genuinely curious here, are there any similar "WYSIWYG" CMS/Site builders that you could recommend? There seems to be quite a jump between the "know how" to build a simple Wix site, and building the same site on something like Wordpress and the hellhole that is its themes.
- namuol 9y ago
  Try Webflow. It's especially for people who already know some HTML/CSS. https://webflow.com/cms https://webflow.com/cms This tutorial video shows how creating template pages works: https://university.webflow.com/lesson/collection-page-cms https://university.webflow.com/lesson/collection-page-cms Here's a video that gives you a better idea of how the design tool works: https://university.webflow.com/lesson/intro-to-flexbox-101 https://university.webflow.com/lesson/intro-to-flexbox-101 (Full disclosure: I'm an engineer at Webflow )
  - synicalx 9y ago
    You know I haven't touched Webflow since about 2013 I reckon, but damn it's come a long way! Thanks for the reminder!
    - tmikaeld 9y ago
      Keep in mind that their CMS cannot collect form-data.
      - namuol 9y ago
        There are some ways to collect form data in the CMS using our public API, but you're right that the underlying system isn't optimized for "real time" data like this, yet.

CJefferson 9y ago

Yes, I evaluated a bunch of website creators (including wix and squarespace) and I ended up at wordpress.com because it seemed to be the only system that offered easy(ish) WYSIWYG website creation, while giving me confidence I could get my website out and still edit/host it even if wordpress.com closed tomorrow.

mercer 9y ago
I'd say as long as you avoid installing plugins without careful consideration, that's a pretty good choice. It's trivial to move your site to pretty much any crappy host, and if performance becomes an issue you could always 1) create cleaned-up custom theme version (shouldn't be too expensive) or pay someone for it, 2) add some form of caching.

coldtea 9y ago

Obviously it's not for people who know about databases or want to know. The same way Hypercard was not for C programmers.

cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
That's not exactly an adequate analogy. The world is a different place now than when Hypercard was released. People have been burned too many times to not be skeptical about using a proprietary piece of technology to power their app.
- sidlls 9y ago
  There are plenty of people even in tech industry rich areas like the Bay Area who don't know or care about that sort of thing. All they want is to just have something that works for them well enough. Now, my experience trying to use sites built with Wix has been uniformly terrible. If I see "wix" anything I simply leave. But that doesn't invalidate the use case.

nunez 9y ago

I mean, if you actually know how to make and upkeep a website, then, yeah, Wix and SS are bad options. But they’re great for my mom who runs a business but doesn’t have time to learn how to make a website

eropple 9y ago
Your mom doesn't need a database or "dynamic pages". And your mom isn't going to be able to set it up without help.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Nobody running a small business needs a database, or to render pages built from them? I can guarantee you that's not true. As for help, there's a big difference between someone who "knows Wix" and someone who can install, configure and maintain a full site, even if using off-the-shelf software.

ioquatix 9y ago

When I see "tables" from a "database" in a web browser, I have a good laugh. I know it's not that impressive but our smallest non-trivial "table" has 100,000 records and our largest over a billion. Good luck trying to use a web UI to manage that. Parse was like this too - and they had a 1000-record limit in their APIs. Good times.

flukus 9y ago
It seems like just about every javascript table library I come across expects the filtering, ordering and paging to be done client side after retrieving all the data. The make for some nice looking demo's but then I have to explain to management (or other devs sadly) why things are so slow.
stuaxo 9y ago
Interesting. Well, there are many jobs that deal with smaller data. Sometimes they even want the full fat full-stack setup with CDN etc, and it turns out there will only ever be like 300 records.

synicalx 9y ago

Genuinely curious here, are there any similar "WYSIWYG" CMS/Site builders that you could recommend? There seems to be quite a jump between the "know how" to build a simple Wix site, and building the same site on something like Wordpress and the hellhole that is its themes.

namuol 9y ago
Try Webflow. It's especially for people who already know some HTML/CSS. https://webflow.com/cms https://webflow.com/cms This tutorial video shows how creating template pages works: https://university.webflow.com/lesson/collection-page-cms https://university.webflow.com/lesson/collection-page-cms Here's a video that gives you a better idea of how the design tool works: https://university.webflow.com/lesson/intro-to-flexbox-101 https://university.webflow.com/lesson/intro-to-flexbox-101 (Full disclosure: I'm an engineer at Webflow )
- synicalx 9y ago
  You know I haven't touched Webflow since about 2013 I reckon, but damn it's come a long way! Thanks for the reminder!
  - tmikaeld 9y ago
    Keep in mind that their CMS cannot collect form-data.
    - namuol 9y ago
      There are some ways to collect form data in the CMS using our public API, but you're right that the underlying system isn't optimized for "real time" data like this, yet.