4 ms·

> any distro I've tried leads to crashes in mesa, it leads to OpenGL not working, and nothing running I don't know what edge-cases you are trying, but AMDGPU i

> any distro I've tried leads to crashes in mesa, it leads to OpenGL not working, and nothing running I don't know what edge-cases you are trying, but AMDGPU is working fine for most of us, and quickly improving over time. Don't forget that AMDGPU is only two years old. It's steadily improving, and I have no doubt that within 5 years it will be at least on par with NVIDIA's driver. > In contrast, NVIDIAs proprietary driver always simply works. What about Wayland? KMS? NVIDIA's driver works for the use cases they made it work for. You simply work inside those use cases, so you don't see the rough edges. Their driver team is quite good, which they have to be to swim upstream like they are. As long as they work against Linux instead of with it, open-source drivers like AMDGPU will always have an inherent advantage. In contrast, NVIDIAs proprietary driver always simply works.

kuschku 9y ago
> What about Wayland? KMS? Both of which cause AMDGPU on my system to crash, too. Or they cause the DE to crash. In fact, I can’t even boot with KMS, because then I just get a black screen.
- tosstossy 9y ago
  Have you brought this is to the attention of the devs? I'd at least hop on freenode #dri-devel and ask around. The people working on this stuff are very accessible, and that is one of the advantages of having an open driver preferably in mainline. Instead of just complaining and accepting poor results, it's a very real possibility to get involved and collaborate with the authors in improving this for yourself and everyone else
  - kuschku 9y ago
    After the devs’ fight on the mailing list with AMD, I’ve given up and switched to the proprietary driver. I’d rather use proprietary technology. After all, the kernel maintainers suggested exactly that: They’d rather have everyone use only proprietary code, than any kind of modularity for drivers in Linux.
    - thomastjeffery 9y ago
      The fact that kernel devs are sticking to their guns does not mean that they are not working hard on AMDGPU, it just means they are not compromising to make it easier for AMD to provide the proprietary part (AMDGPU-pro). AMDGPU-pro is only necessary for features that AMDGPU does not provide, and for the proprietary implementations of Vulkan, OpenCL, HDMI/DP audio (I'm not sure if that has been fixed yet), OpenGL, etc. AMDGPU-pro has nothing to do with KMS or Wayland. It's also worth noting that AMDGPU provides competitive OpenGL and Vulkan performance, so you are better off using it instead of forcing yourself to run an outdated kernel and Xorg that support AMDGPU-pro. > I’d rather use proprietary technology. You are free to your own opinion there, but know that there are many of us who care a great deal about open drivers. I, for one, bought 4 AMD cards, partly because of price, but mostly because of the promise of open drivers.
      - kuschku 9y ago
        > You are free to your own opinion there, but know that there are many of us who care a great deal about open drivers. I, for one, bought 4 AMD cards, partly because of price, but mostly because of the promise of open drivers. I generally care more about open source, too, but when the Linux kernel maintainers tell me to "fuck off" and "just use proprietary drivers", then I’ll do exactly that. > The fact that kernel devs are sticking to their guns does not mean that they are not working hard on AMDGPU, it just means they are not compromising to make it easier for AMD to provide the proprietary part (AMDGPU-pro). Well, they are trying to make it harder to do that. All that would be necessary would be a tiny abstraction layer to add driver extensions for functionality that can not be open source today (because it might be something where AMD is actively competing with NVIDIA). Instead, I’m forced into running an outdated kernel, outdated Xorg, and proprietary versions of everything.
        thomastjeffery 9y ago
        > but when the Linux kernel maintainers tell me to "fuck off" and "just use proprietary drivers", then I’ll do exactly that. When have they ever done that? Linus has famously told NVIDIA to "fuck off" because of issues caused by their proprietary drivers. These people want open drivers, possibly even more than I do. > > The fact that kernel devs are sticking to their guns does not mean that they are not working hard on AMDGPU, it just means they are not compromising to make it easier for AMD to provide the proprietary part (AMDGPU-pro). > Well, they are trying to make it harder to do that. The Linux devs are not doing a singular thing to actively make AMD's life more difficult. AMD is begging them to do something that makes their life more difficult, and they are saying, "no". > functionality that can not be open source today (because it might be something where AMD is actively competing with NVIDIA). That is, always has been, and always will be, total bullshit. Whether or not you share that opinion, it is the opinion of those who put hard work into maintaining Linux. > Instead, I’m forced into running an outdated kernel, outdated Xorg, and proprietary versions of everything. That is the entire premise of Free Software. Only proprietary software forces users, and proprietary software begets proprietary software. Free Software begets Free Software. If the Linux devs suddenly decide they will compromise to make proprietary software more convenient, then I, the user, will lose freedom. The stubbornness of the Linux team is not just for them, it is for me, for you, and for anyone who uses Linux.

kuschku 9y ago

> What about Wayland? KMS? Both of which cause AMDGPU on my system to crash, too. Or they cause the DE to crash. In fact, I can’t even boot with KMS, because then I just get a black screen.

tosstossy 9y ago
Have you brought this is to the attention of the devs? I'd at least hop on freenode #dri-devel and ask around. The people working on this stuff are very accessible, and that is one of the advantages of having an open driver preferably in mainline. Instead of just complaining and accepting poor results, it's a very real possibility to get involved and collaborate with the authors in improving this for yourself and everyone else
- kuschku 9y ago
  After the devs’ fight on the mailing list with AMD, I’ve given up and switched to the proprietary driver. I’d rather use proprietary technology. After all, the kernel maintainers suggested exactly that: They’d rather have everyone use only proprietary code, than any kind of modularity for drivers in Linux.
  - thomastjeffery 9y ago
    The fact that kernel devs are sticking to their guns does not mean that they are not working hard on AMDGPU, it just means they are not compromising to make it easier for AMD to provide the proprietary part (AMDGPU-pro). AMDGPU-pro is only necessary for features that AMDGPU does not provide, and for the proprietary implementations of Vulkan, OpenCL, HDMI/DP audio (I'm not sure if that has been fixed yet), OpenGL, etc. AMDGPU-pro has nothing to do with KMS or Wayland. It's also worth noting that AMDGPU provides competitive OpenGL and Vulkan performance, so you are better off using it instead of forcing yourself to run an outdated kernel and Xorg that support AMDGPU-pro. > I’d rather use proprietary technology. You are free to your own opinion there, but know that there are many of us who care a great deal about open drivers. I, for one, bought 4 AMD cards, partly because of price, but mostly because of the promise of open drivers.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      > You are free to your own opinion there, but know that there are many of us who care a great deal about open drivers. I, for one, bought 4 AMD cards, partly because of price, but mostly because of the promise of open drivers. I generally care more about open source, too, but when the Linux kernel maintainers tell me to "fuck off" and "just use proprietary drivers", then I’ll do exactly that. > The fact that kernel devs are sticking to their guns does not mean that they are not working hard on AMDGPU, it just means they are not compromising to make it easier for AMD to provide the proprietary part (AMDGPU-pro). Well, they are trying to make it harder to do that. All that would be necessary would be a tiny abstraction layer to add driver extensions for functionality that can not be open source today (because it might be something where AMD is actively competing with NVIDIA). Instead, I’m forced into running an outdated kernel, outdated Xorg, and proprietary versions of everything.
      - thomastjeffery 9y ago
        > but when the Linux kernel maintainers tell me to "fuck off" and "just use proprietary drivers", then I’ll do exactly that. When have they ever done that? Linus has famously told NVIDIA to "fuck off" because of issues caused by their proprietary drivers. These people want open drivers, possibly even more than I do. > > The fact that kernel devs are sticking to their guns does not mean that they are not working hard on AMDGPU, it just means they are not compromising to make it easier for AMD to provide the proprietary part (AMDGPU-pro). > Well, they are trying to make it harder to do that. The Linux devs are not doing a singular thing to actively make AMD's life more difficult. AMD is begging them to do something that makes their life more difficult, and they are saying, "no". > functionality that can not be open source today (because it might be something where AMD is actively competing with NVIDIA). That is, always has been, and always will be, total bullshit. Whether or not you share that opinion, it is the opinion of those who put hard work into maintaining Linux. > Instead, I’m forced into running an outdated kernel, outdated Xorg, and proprietary versions of everything. That is the entire premise of Free Software. Only proprietary software forces users, and proprietary software begets proprietary software. Free Software begets Free Software. If the Linux devs suddenly decide they will compromise to make proprietary software more convenient, then I, the user, will lose freedom. The stubbornness of the Linux team is not just for them, it is for me, for you, and for anyone who uses Linux.