7 ms·

But when I can't even get that speed under favorable conditions then it is dishonest to advertise that speed. If you can't even get that speed when connecting

But when I can't even get that speed under favorable conditions then it is dishonest to advertise that speed. If you can't even get that speed when connecting to the ISP's own server a few miles away then you aren't getting what you pay for. When car companies advertise the fuel efficiency of their cars those are realistic numbers for regular driving because there is a standardized testing protocol. You can trust the number because it is regulated, so why can't we hold ISPs to the same standard?

userbinator 9y ago
If you can't even get that speed when connecting to the ISP's own server a few miles away then you aren't getting what you pay for. That I agree with --- the connection from your house to your ISP should always be at advertised speed, but beyond that it's basically impossible to guarantee anything.
- mjevans 9y ago
  Actually it needs to be /through/ the ISP. Them selling you a fast speed is worthless if their peering points are saturated beyond any sane value.
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
  How is it impossible for an ISP to guarantee bandwidth within their own network, including to/from interconnection points/exchanges?! Maybe not at every point in time (if you accept some overbooking), but that doesn't mean that you can't at least guarantee bandwidth for > 99% of the time. The ISP's advertised bandwidth should be available essentially always, with rare exceptions for unusually high levels of traffic, between your connection point and some exchange location where other ISPs can interconnect with your ISP without paying your ISP any money. The ISP doesn't have to guarantee that every server is reachable at advertised speeds, but they should guarantee that if ever anyone wants to send packets in your direction at the speed of your link, they should be able to either bury their own lines or buy transit from a market of transit providers to deliver the packets to some point in their network, and that those will be delivered without major packet loss at full rate.
  - closeparen 9y ago
    Overselling of the last mile infrastructure. If you want to see what a not-oversold last mile connection (with a real minimum speed SLA) would cost, take a look at the “for business” pricing and weep. Most people’s usage is bursty, so the present oversold state is probably the least bad option compared to having a fixed <1Mbps line speed or paying thousands per month for a truly dedicated 50-100Mbps.
    - gaius 9y ago
      It WAS bursty when most people were browsing but it's continuous if they've streaming these days.
      - throw_away_4567 9y ago
        Yeah but not much - stream Amazon Prime UHD pretend 4k and consume.. 18mbps. You can support 1k homes doing that on a 10G pon or VDSL build
    - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
      Which is an answer to my question how exactly?
      - closeparen 9y ago
        They can and do provide guaranteed speeds; it costs a lot more. They can't provide guarantees (or 99% guarantees) of existing advertised speeds at anywhere near the existing price structure because the economics are based on overselling.
        zzzcpan 9y ago
        No, no one provides guaranteed speeds. Guarantees you are talking about that ISPs provide are only for you being able to saturate the link 100% of the time, which you shouldn't do on home or business connections.
        9y ago
- walshemj 9y ago
  Sigh I sugest you look at how last mile is delivered every pair running to the exchange / CO is diferent in terms of what speed you can deliver and thats before you factor in contention
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
Feniks 9y ago
Regulations don't fall out of the sky. Ban lobbying and stop corporations from financing political parties. That would begin to solve this I guarantee it. But so long as your ISP has the ear of lawmakers you're SOL. We're going to have to act if we want to live in a different world.
- lostboys67 9y ago
  MM so you mean stop Rupert Murdoch throwing a hissy fit and bully his direct competitors then - BTW you do realise that OFCOM was set up to keep him happy (source direct quote from the then chair of an all parliamentary group on telecoms )

userbinator 9y ago

If you can't even get that speed when connecting to the ISP's own server a few miles away then you aren't getting what you pay for. That I agree with --- the connection from your house to your ISP should always be at advertised speed, but beyond that it's basically impossible to guarantee anything.

mjevans 9y ago
Actually it needs to be /through/ the ISP. Them selling you a fast speed is worthless if their peering points are saturated beyond any sane value.
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
How is it impossible for an ISP to guarantee bandwidth within their own network, including to/from interconnection points/exchanges?! Maybe not at every point in time (if you accept some overbooking), but that doesn't mean that you can't at least guarantee bandwidth for > 99% of the time. The ISP's advertised bandwidth should be available essentially always, with rare exceptions for unusually high levels of traffic, between your connection point and some exchange location where other ISPs can interconnect with your ISP without paying your ISP any money. The ISP doesn't have to guarantee that every server is reachable at advertised speeds, but they should guarantee that if ever anyone wants to send packets in your direction at the speed of your link, they should be able to either bury their own lines or buy transit from a market of transit providers to deliver the packets to some point in their network, and that those will be delivered without major packet loss at full rate.
- closeparen 9y ago
  Overselling of the last mile infrastructure. If you want to see what a not-oversold last mile connection (with a real minimum speed SLA) would cost, take a look at the “for business” pricing and weep. Most people’s usage is bursty, so the present oversold state is probably the least bad option compared to having a fixed <1Mbps line speed or paying thousands per month for a truly dedicated 50-100Mbps.
  - gaius 9y ago
    It WAS bursty when most people were browsing but it's continuous if they've streaming these days.
    - throw_away_4567 9y ago
      Yeah but not much - stream Amazon Prime UHD pretend 4k and consume.. 18mbps. You can support 1k homes doing that on a 10G pon or VDSL build
  - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
    Which is an answer to my question how exactly?
    - closeparen 9y ago
      They can and do provide guaranteed speeds; it costs a lot more. They can't provide guarantees (or 99% guarantees) of existing advertised speeds at anywhere near the existing price structure because the economics are based on overselling.
      - zzzcpan 9y ago
        No, no one provides guaranteed speeds. Guarantees you are talking about that ISPs provide are only for you being able to saturate the link 100% of the time, which you shouldn't do on home or business connections.
      - 9y ago
walshemj 9y ago
Sigh I sugest you look at how last mile is delivered every pair running to the exchange / CO is diferent in terms of what speed you can deliver and thats before you factor in contention
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

Feniks 9y ago

Regulations don't fall out of the sky. Ban lobbying and stop corporations from financing political parties. That would begin to solve this I guarantee it. But so long as your ISP has the ear of lawmakers you're SOL. We're going to have to act if we want to live in a different world.

lostboys67 9y ago
MM so you mean stop Rupert Murdoch throwing a hissy fit and bully his direct competitors then - BTW you do realise that OFCOM was set up to keep him happy (source direct quote from the then chair of an all parliamentary group on telecoms )