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> The fees will only get larger as there is more transaction Which means, every opportunity to try to censor someone will make them not be able to get the fees

• EGreg 9y ago
  Yes I am really bringing it up. You think this is the first time cartels have figured out they can raise fees to participate in a network? Look at the Chinese government able to shut down exchanges to prevent people from exchanging bitcoin for yuan. Look at ICE shutting down websites via a simple takedown note to a domain registrar or an ISP. Many governments are concerned about money laundering via Bitcoin, or North Korea's stash etc. Do you really think five mining pools can't be easy targets for freezing someone's account? Come on. Now, as far as diversifying your holdings into many accounts and currencies -- this is, and has ever been -- the way to try and escape the State seizing / freezing all your assets. Nothing new under the sun. Just because you call it a lie and downvote me doesn't make it so. Use substantive argument and tell me why the five mining pools CAN'T freeze someone's account, rather than just calling it a lie. Having many anonymous accounts is a different matter -- and it's not easy to keep many anonymous identities totally separate btw. You know, I really do think permissionless currencies are possible. A database is permissionless to the extent that at least ONE entity authorized to enter your transaction will do it, in a reasonable amount of time. If there are many independent such entities (call them miners, banks, whatever) then the chance that one will "defect" and let you pay someone is higher. It's just that Proof of Work is a terrible way to make that happen sustainably because, as I said, arms races always lead to centralization. (In fact that's how states and empires formed in the first place!) And since Bitcoin had Proof of Work, it was inevitable that it would come to be controlled by some mining pools in an area where energy is cheap. And I also told you that while you as an individual may not be interesting to China, the BANKS do not want to tie up billions of dollars in a medium where it could be frozen by a few foreign entities. This is not even talking about the volatility etc. As for you as an individual, the ability to deny you access to pay someone (ie add a transaction to the blockchain) is represented by the rising fees. It's not 0 to Frozen in one step, it's what an intermediate step looks like organically. They can make the fees really high so as to make small transactions infeasible. Now, you want to be really permissionless? Use credit-money, like Ripple or Trustlines.network . There is no double-spend problem and no need for third parties to approve any transactions between two people. However, credit can only take you so far. Large payments will require a ledger of some kind. Many good protocols exist now that are far more permissionless than bitcoin. Why is bitcoin the best? It just has the most money invested in it for now (market cap). That's like saying MySpace is the best because it's the first.
  • rothbardrand 9y ago
    No doubt they are trying-- that's why there is bcash and 2x. But bitcoin is fighting them. The odds favor bitcoin. And if they win the 2x by getting hash power, bitcoin will fork to a new PoW and render their millions in ASICS worthless. Bitcoin don't care.
  • knocte 9y ago
    > ...they can raise fees to participate in a network? The only times they have done that, AFAIU, is when they wanted to pump altcoins (such as Ethereum when there was a lot of uncertainty over bitcoin scaling and community seeing segwit not adopted; or such as BCash when the UASF was coming). Everytime they've done this, they have had to spend a lot of money to do it. We will never know if it payed off, but right now fees are really low. > Look at the Chinese government able to shut down exchanges to prevent people from exchanging bitcoin for yuan. Sorry, what does this have to do with blockchain? > Do you really think five mining pools can't be easy targets for freezing someone's account? Come on. Not all mining pools are in the same country, so it's not so easy to do that unless you're the NWO. And even if you managed to make the main 5 mining pools censor your transaction, from time to time there are smaller mining pools that mine some block, so if you put a high-enough fee for them, you would eventually move your money. > Just because you call it a lie and downvote me doesn't make it so. Use substantive argument I only called any sentence from you as a lie when you were not providing arguments, just FUD. As for me, I tried to back my arguments with reasons all the time. Also I cannot downvote comments that I reply to, so it's not me downvoting you actually. > Now, as far as diversifying your holdings into many accounts and currencies I never mentioned "many currencies", and I never mentioned "many accounts". With HD wallets, you have many addresses which all belong to the same account. > and it's not easy to keep many anonymous identities totally separate btw. Wrong, please study HD wallets, they are a thing, and it's usage is automatic and not complex. > They can make the fees really high so as to make small transactions infeasible. Fortunately, we have Layer2 to save us. Fees will be much lower thanks to that. > Now, you want to be really permissionless? Use credit-money, like Ripple or Trustlines.network . I knew all your FUD had some motivation behind it :) Go pump your altcoins elsewhere. Ripple is premined by the banks so using it is like letting the same fiat-money players be the kings of the game again.