3 ms·

You're joking right? Every major car manufacture has, or is about to have a car that is competitive with the model 3. Multiple larger car makers believe whole

by dlp211 9y ago

You're joking right? Every major car manufacture has, or is about to have a car that is competitive with the model 3. Multiple larger car makers believe whole hog that electric is the future. If you are talking about the self-driving car features, I would first state that Tesla doesn't have those either, and their marketing is a huge liability for them. Second, the major car manufacturer's are at least at the same place as Tesla, are further along, but due aren't as aggressive with bringing the tech to market until they have substantial confidence in it.

codeulike 9y ago
Remember that chevvy sell the bolt at a loss. And consequently they don't bother actually trying to sell many of them. I don't think anyone is capable of making batteries as cheaply as Tesla. At least not for the next few years.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
jseliger 9y ago
Every major car manufacture has, or is about to have a car that is competitive with the model 3 [Citation needed], as they say on Wikipedia. Lots of press releases have been issued, but only Chevy has released the Bolt. Don't get me wrong: I'm a long-term optimist. But the long term may be distressingly long in getting here.
- fpoling 9y ago
  Just today I read about Nissan Leaf 2018 with its range of 150 miles while staying below 30K USD and newer eGolf from Volkswagen is also interesting. Given how much Volkswagen managed to improve the battery pack it seems the German manufacturer is taking the business of developing powerful car batteries very seriously.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - hwillis 9y ago
    The new Leaf costs 85% as much as a model 3. It has 68% the range, 10" less length and 6" less width, no actual trunk or frunk, and 57% as much horsepower (less than a Honda Civic). It's a way worse value and when you're trying to sell a cheap car, value is the whole point. Doubly so for an electric car since if someone can't scrape up another 5 grand they could just buy a combustion car. The eGolf is the same deal at the same price, but 52% as much power and 57% as much range. That's terrible! Compare the differences between the model 3 and model S: 85% the range, 68% of the horsepower, 56% of the cost. The model 3's performance is farther removed from the Leaf and eGolf than it is from the model S, but the pricing is totally reversed.
    - fpoling 9y ago
      Judging by Norway where electrical cars are bought nowdays as a primary car people are sensitive to the extra 5000 USD that model 3 asks compared with Leaf. Surely model 3 is nicer, but better price/performance is meaningless if the price cannot be afforded. As for the range, even on eGolf from 2016 with its range of 200km I drove 500km through mountains and it took me about 15% longer due to the need for charging.
- petre 9y ago
  > Lots of press releases have been issued, but only Chevy has released the Bolt. Don't forget Renault Zoe and Nissan Leaf, although they're aiming for the affordable subcompact market rather than luxury cars. And yeah, the eGolf although I haven't seen any or maybe VW still prefers selling diesel Passats.
vvanders 9y ago
Yet none of them have a charging solution that matches Tesla. ChaDeMo is half the speed in real-world scenarios and stations don't work half the time. CCS has a good spec but zero real-world deployments that break 60kW. Meanwhile every 120kW supercharger station I've seen has been doubling capacity and they've been adding stations at a breakneck pace. Heck you can now make the entire loop on the Olympic Peninsula now.
hwillis 9y ago
There are zero other automakers that are negotiating to use superchargers or build there own, so in the strictest sense there are no cars competing with the model 3. Judging the cars themselves there are still no real competitors. All of the upcoming cars are 3+ years away and still firmly concepts. The manufacturers speculating about 30-40k prices are banking entirely on a massive drop in battery cost that would affect Tesla too. Nobody is even pretending that they will be able to match Tesla's tech; I haven't seen a concept that expects better efficiency yet. I'm gonna take special note of the Bolt here: it's an awful car that is totally incomparable to a model 3. First off it's a subcompact compared to a full sedan that weighs less. The bolt goes 0-60 in 6.3 vs 5.1 for the model 3, which is way more spacious and carries more cargo. The car's lead designer said it was "a disaster for aero"[1] and its drag coefficient is 50% worse than a model 3. The model 3 is better in every way except having 18 miles less range, and I would even take issue with that. At highway speed a model 3 will get farther range every time- the EPA highway range weights towards 55 mph highway driving and gives massive advantages to large cars with awful aerodynamics. RCR hated the Bolt[2]. [1]: http://www.autonews.com/article/20160807/OEM03/160809904/gms-korea-studio-broke-the-mold-with-bolt http://www.autonews.com/article/20160807/OEM03/160809904/gms... [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-gDhq8VKsQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-gDhq8VKsQ
prostoalex 9y ago
While some have offered token electric vehicles to "ride the wave" or comply with states' emission requirements, the competitive metric for electric cars for most people is $/total range of the vehicle. Chevy Bolt is the only reasonable competitor that comes close to Tesla, and Hyundai has a chance, everybody else is selling an overpriced toy. https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i8XLJOMH5GFY/v3/1400x-1.png https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i8XLJOMH5GF... (the numbers in that figure do not reflect recent price drops on Model S vehicles)

by dlp211 9y ago

codeulike 9y ago

Remember that chevvy sell the bolt at a loss. And consequently they don't bother actually trying to sell many of them. I don't think anyone is capable of making batteries as cheaply as Tesla. At least not for the next few years.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

jseliger 9y ago

Every major car manufacture has, or is about to have a car that is competitive with the model 3 [Citation needed], as they say on Wikipedia. Lots of press releases have been issued, but only Chevy has released the Bolt. Don't get me wrong: I'm a long-term optimist. But the long term may be distressingly long in getting here.

fpoling 9y ago
Just today I read about Nissan Leaf 2018 with its range of 150 miles while staying below 30K USD and newer eGolf from Volkswagen is also interesting. Given how much Volkswagen managed to improve the battery pack it seems the German manufacturer is taking the business of developing powerful car batteries very seriously.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- hwillis 9y ago
  The new Leaf costs 85% as much as a model 3. It has 68% the range, 10" less length and 6" less width, no actual trunk or frunk, and 57% as much horsepower (less than a Honda Civic). It's a way worse value and when you're trying to sell a cheap car, value is the whole point. Doubly so for an electric car since if someone can't scrape up another 5 grand they could just buy a combustion car. The eGolf is the same deal at the same price, but 52% as much power and 57% as much range. That's terrible! Compare the differences between the model 3 and model S: 85% the range, 68% of the horsepower, 56% of the cost. The model 3's performance is farther removed from the Leaf and eGolf than it is from the model S, but the pricing is totally reversed.
  - fpoling 9y ago
    Judging by Norway where electrical cars are bought nowdays as a primary car people are sensitive to the extra 5000 USD that model 3 asks compared with Leaf. Surely model 3 is nicer, but better price/performance is meaningless if the price cannot be afforded. As for the range, even on eGolf from 2016 with its range of 200km I drove 500km through mountains and it took me about 15% longer due to the need for charging.
petre 9y ago
> Lots of press releases have been issued, but only Chevy has released the Bolt. Don't forget Renault Zoe and Nissan Leaf, although they're aiming for the affordable subcompact market rather than luxury cars. And yeah, the eGolf although I haven't seen any or maybe VW still prefers selling diesel Passats.

vvanders 9y ago

Yet none of them have a charging solution that matches Tesla. ChaDeMo is half the speed in real-world scenarios and stations don't work half the time. CCS has a good spec but zero real-world deployments that break 60kW. Meanwhile every 120kW supercharger station I've seen has been doubling capacity and they've been adding stations at a breakneck pace. Heck you can now make the entire loop on the Olympic Peninsula now.

hwillis 9y ago

There are zero other automakers that are negotiating to use superchargers or build there own, so in the strictest sense there are no cars competing with the model 3. Judging the cars themselves there are still no real competitors. All of the upcoming cars are 3+ years away and still firmly concepts. The manufacturers speculating about 30-40k prices are banking entirely on a massive drop in battery cost that would affect Tesla too. Nobody is even pretending that they will be able to match Tesla's tech; I haven't seen a concept that expects better efficiency yet. I'm gonna take special note of the Bolt here: it's an awful car that is totally incomparable to a model 3. First off it's a subcompact compared to a full sedan that weighs less. The bolt goes 0-60 in 6.3 vs 5.1 for the model 3, which is way more spacious and carries more cargo. The car's lead designer said it was "a disaster for aero"[1] and its drag coefficient is 50% worse than a model 3. The model 3 is better in every way except having 18 miles less range, and I would even take issue with that. At highway speed a model 3 will get farther range every time- the EPA highway range weights towards 55 mph highway driving and gives massive advantages to large cars with awful aerodynamics. RCR hated the Bolt[2]. [1]: http://www.autonews.com/article/20160807/OEM03/160809904/gms-korea-studio-broke-the-mold-with-bolt http://www.autonews.com/article/20160807/OEM03/160809904/gms... [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-gDhq8VKsQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-gDhq8VKsQ

prostoalex 9y ago

While some have offered token electric vehicles to "ride the wave" or comply with states' emission requirements, the competitive metric for electric cars for most people is $/total range of the vehicle. Chevy Bolt is the only reasonable competitor that comes close to Tesla, and Hyundai has a chance, everybody else is selling an overpriced toy. https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i8XLJOMH5GFY/v3/1400x-1.png https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i8XLJOMH5GF... (the numbers in that figure do not reflect recent price drops on Model S vehicles)