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The discrimination against Asians is in some cases arguably not that much worse than discrimination against Whites, or even sometimes data shows Whites are disc

The discrimination against Asians is in some cases arguably not that much worse than discrimination against Whites, or even sometimes data shows Whites are discriminated against more. Looking at LizzyM scores, for the most part Whites and Asians receive similar acceptance rates with similar scores, but in some cases Asians receive preference. You can see this w/ scores about 520 and 3.8(1). However, Asians are admitted as a far greater proportion of their race than Whites. Asians are about 5% of US population, but can make up over 40% of incoming classes in med school, while Whites, who are over 60% of the US population, were only 37%, in this typical example at Northwestern(1). Blacks, through affirmative action, enjoy a relatively equal proportion of matriculants as Whites, even though Blacks score on average many standard deviations lower than Whites and Asians. In many cases, a majority of Blacks are accepted with scores that Whites and Asians have, as data shows, a 0% chance of acceptance with. So what is fair? Right now, it is hardest to get in to med school as a White, but that is so extremely politically incorrect that no one dare say it. www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/admissions/how-to-apply/class-profile.html https://schools.studentdoctor.net/lizzym_score https://schools.studentdoctor.net/lizzym_score

Osmium 9y ago
> So what is fair? Isn't that the toughest question? I don't know what the answer is. I don't know where I stand on affirmative action: in any given instant, it seems unfair, but in a historical context it seems necessary that affirmative action should happen until the point where the damage done in the past has been undone, and we can have equal opportunities. LBJ's words resonate with me on this: > That beginning is freedom; and the barriers to that freedom are tumbling down. Freedom is the right to share, share fully and equally, in American society--to vote, to hold a job, to enter a public place, to go to school. It is the right to be treated in every part of our national life as a person equal in dignity and promise to all others. > But freedom is not enough. You do not wipe away the scars of centuries by saying: Now you are free to go where you want, and do as you desire, and choose the leaders you please. > You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say, "you are free to compete with all the others," and still justly believe that you have been completely fair. > Thus it is not enough just to open the gates of opportunity. All our citizens must have the ability to walk through those gates. Source: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=27021 http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=27021
- wallace_f 9y ago
  It's difficult because these injustices did actually happen, and were terrible, but they are not happening today. Meanwhile there is enough injustice in the world right now make any good-hearted person's head spin. I really believe the real problem was not fixed. We need to not just ensure, but try to maximize opportunity for all people, and not limit any group to it. Instead, everything is focused on tail-end adjustments that are neither fair nor optimal for maximizing opportunity and prosperity. I wanted MLK's idea of a colorblind world where no one is judged based on your skin, but we've gone so far down this rabbit hole that what we are in fact doing is this very thing! Yet no one dare say it as it is so incredibly politically incorrect to discuss it with honesty. If you want honesty, look at banking, government, academia, and media, and see which race has orders of magnitude disproportionate representation.
  - Osmium 9y ago
    > I wanted MLK's idea of a colorblind world where no one is judged based on your skin I still believe this is possible, I just think we're one or two generations behind. I'm encouraged that the coming generation seems to understand fairness and equality much more naturally and intuitively than my own generation. Where I still feel like I need to be vigilant against racist thought creeping in (simply from conditioning, stereotypes... I don't consider myself racist, but it's so easy to become tribal without realizing it), for people just a few years younger than me it seems it's just that much easier for them. And the next generation after will hopefully be better still. I have hope. When you think about it, humanity went very quickly from largely homogenous, semi-isolated communities, to a global community, with lots of movement. It’s going a while for the system to equilibriate. And while there may be many little racist Maxwell’s demons running around doing damage in the short term, I have faith that in the long term we will get there.
- plandis 9y ago
  You're effectively saying that white people should pay for the sins of their ancestors. Instead of making this about race I wish that they would make it about socioeconomic status. How is it fair that I, a white guy from a poor family with no college connections, should have a harder time gaining entry to college solely because of the color of my skin for things I didn't even do.
erik_seaberg 9y ago
> Asians are about 5% of US population, but can make up over 40% of incoming classes in med school Isn't this because foreign students pay higher tuition?
intrasight 9y ago
"it is hardest to get in to med school as a White, but that is so extremely politically incorrect that no one dare say it" They don't say it because "as a White" or "as a Black" or "as an Asian" are all terribly racist statements. Let just stick to "as a human" - then you're not being racist and there's no concert of being politically correct.

Osmium 9y ago

> So what is fair? Isn't that the toughest question? I don't know what the answer is. I don't know where I stand on affirmative action: in any given instant, it seems unfair, but in a historical context it seems necessary that affirmative action should happen until the point where the damage done in the past has been undone, and we can have equal opportunities. LBJ's words resonate with me on this: > That beginning is freedom; and the barriers to that freedom are tumbling down. Freedom is the right to share, share fully and equally, in American society--to vote, to hold a job, to enter a public place, to go to school. It is the right to be treated in every part of our national life as a person equal in dignity and promise to all others. > But freedom is not enough. You do not wipe away the scars of centuries by saying: Now you are free to go where you want, and do as you desire, and choose the leaders you please. > You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say, "you are free to compete with all the others," and still justly believe that you have been completely fair. > Thus it is not enough just to open the gates of opportunity. All our citizens must have the ability to walk through those gates. Source: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=27021 http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=27021

wallace_f 9y ago
It's difficult because these injustices did actually happen, and were terrible, but they are not happening today. Meanwhile there is enough injustice in the world right now make any good-hearted person's head spin. I really believe the real problem was not fixed. We need to not just ensure, but try to maximize opportunity for all people, and not limit any group to it. Instead, everything is focused on tail-end adjustments that are neither fair nor optimal for maximizing opportunity and prosperity. I wanted MLK's idea of a colorblind world where no one is judged based on your skin, but we've gone so far down this rabbit hole that what we are in fact doing is this very thing! Yet no one dare say it as it is so incredibly politically incorrect to discuss it with honesty. If you want honesty, look at banking, government, academia, and media, and see which race has orders of magnitude disproportionate representation.
- Osmium 9y ago
  > I wanted MLK's idea of a colorblind world where no one is judged based on your skin I still believe this is possible, I just think we're one or two generations behind. I'm encouraged that the coming generation seems to understand fairness and equality much more naturally and intuitively than my own generation. Where I still feel like I need to be vigilant against racist thought creeping in (simply from conditioning, stereotypes... I don't consider myself racist, but it's so easy to become tribal without realizing it), for people just a few years younger than me it seems it's just that much easier for them. And the next generation after will hopefully be better still. I have hope. When you think about it, humanity went very quickly from largely homogenous, semi-isolated communities, to a global community, with lots of movement. It’s going a while for the system to equilibriate. And while there may be many little racist Maxwell’s demons running around doing damage in the short term, I have faith that in the long term we will get there.
plandis 9y ago
You're effectively saying that white people should pay for the sins of their ancestors. Instead of making this about race I wish that they would make it about socioeconomic status. How is it fair that I, a white guy from a poor family with no college connections, should have a harder time gaining entry to college solely because of the color of my skin for things I didn't even do.

erik_seaberg 9y ago

> Asians are about 5% of US population, but can make up over 40% of incoming classes in med school Isn't this because foreign students pay higher tuition?

intrasight 9y ago

"it is hardest to get in to med school as a White, but that is so extremely politically incorrect that no one dare say it" They don't say it because "as a White" or "as a Black" or "as an Asian" are all terribly racist statements. Let just stick to "as a human" - then you're not being racist and there's no concert of being politically correct.