4 ms·

I think you're making a lot of good points here, but: > Coal is still cheaper... This is only true when you socialize the long-term costs incurred by coal. Re

I think you're making a lot of good points here, but: > Coal is still cheaper... This is only true when you socialize the long-term costs incurred by coal. Regulation is an attempt to push some of those costs back onto the companies that incur them, and then it turns out that coal isn't so cheap after all. I suppose that since "regulation" is becoming a dirty word in politics, and especially with the influence from fringe libertarians, we could instead provide government-funded lawyers to sue any coal-producing company on behalf of any individual or community that can provide any evidence that coal production harmed them in some way. We could set up expedited courts for it and allow any coal-producing company to be litigated against even if they weren't directly responsible for the injury, and remove the other various loopholes that massive environment-exploiting companies use to make money at the expense of people's health. Then, there wouldn't regulations, and coal would still be expensive.

alexanderstears 9y ago
For all our focus on the indirect costs in coal, there seems to be willful ignorance about the environmental impact of Chinese solar panels. Sure, you can get solar panels from countries with more environmental oversight but that's going to impact the payoff curve. It's a shame that the focus is on conservation - energy abundance is better for humanity.
- thaumaturgy 9y ago
  Human civilization has always made concessions in the name of progress, and as we've progressed, the concessions we're willing to make have changed. There certainly are environmental (and human) costs associated with producing electricity from solar energy, but the costs between that and coal production and combustion are not exactly the same. I hope there will be a day when the production of conventional PV will be a concession we're no longer willing to make because something even better has been developed. In the meantime, in a discussion about the socialized costs of coal and whether that's being fairly factored into arguments about its price, I think "but solar..." is a bit of a red herring. Relevant, but only barely.
  - alexanderstears 9y ago
    but the costs between that and coal production and combustion are not exactly the same. And what are they in favor of? Coal? Solar?

alexanderstears 9y ago

For all our focus on the indirect costs in coal, there seems to be willful ignorance about the environmental impact of Chinese solar panels. Sure, you can get solar panels from countries with more environmental oversight but that's going to impact the payoff curve. It's a shame that the focus is on conservation - energy abundance is better for humanity.

thaumaturgy 9y ago
Human civilization has always made concessions in the name of progress, and as we've progressed, the concessions we're willing to make have changed. There certainly are environmental (and human) costs associated with producing electricity from solar energy, but the costs between that and coal production and combustion are not exactly the same. I hope there will be a day when the production of conventional PV will be a concession we're no longer willing to make because something even better has been developed. In the meantime, in a discussion about the socialized costs of coal and whether that's being fairly factored into arguments about its price, I think "but solar..." is a bit of a red herring. Relevant, but only barely.
- alexanderstears 9y ago
  but the costs between that and coal production and combustion are not exactly the same. And what are they in favor of? Coal? Solar?