4 ms·

I feel like there has to be a good amount of people in the world who take psychedelics on a regular basis. At least more so than your average person. I'd imagin

I feel like there has to be a good amount of people in the world who take psychedelics on a regular basis. At least more so than your average person. I'd imagine they are still broken, shattered, and lost individuals. Maybe some people have accessed some secret knowledge on their trips. But for the vast majority, I doubt that's the case. I am not saying that there is no benefit, especially for an extreme case like this. That relief these people get, a chance to exist without the confusion and pain, and just feel like love. But the high you get is a distraction from the pain you are feeling. It's not the taking of MDMA or Psilocybin that fixes the issues. It's the integration. It's the "lessons" you learn from your experience. But are you learning, or are you just finally looking at what you didn't want to all these years? Do you need to take psychedelics to look? I think we should keep researching, because we should see what is at the end of this tunnel.

wavefunction 9y ago
You sound like you haven't tried either MDMA or mushrooms from reading your post. I can't speak for everyone but the stuff you think is 'all bullshit' seems to be pretty common experience even among people who don't know Terrence McKenna or George Harrison from lil Jeffy Sessions. And psychedelic use has been deeply ingrained in various human cultures all over the world for thousands (tens of thousands? hundreds of thousands?) of years. Taking psychedelics as part of a religious ceremony or ritual to rid oneself of suffering is part of indigenous traditions in the Americas, Europe, Africa, Asia and Australia/Oceania. I'd say the historical traditions and these new studies should convince even you that there is no fad involved in human psychotropic use.
- moretai 9y ago
  >Taking psychedelics as part of a religious ceremony or ritual to rid oneself of suffering is part of indigenous traditions in the Americas, Europe, Africa, Asia and Australia/Oceania. Could you link me to some research about this? I have heard this talked about, but I haven't found anything reliable.
  - tosstossy 9y ago
    This may be of interest https://books.google.com/books?id=Jj8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA101#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=Jj8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA101#v=on...
  - wavefunction 9y ago
    I think this article has some good examples of cultures and traditions you can google for further info: https://www.culturalsurvival.org/publications/cultural-survival-quarterly/hallucinogenic-plants-and-their-use-traditional-societies https://www.culturalsurvival.org/publications/cultural-survi...
n4r9 9y ago
I've experienced a trauma-induced anxiety disorder and mdma experiences. You seem to reach a certain level of insight but then suddenly turn strangely dismissive. > the high you get is a distraction from the pain you are feeling Sort of. The feeling is of an assurance, a joyful security that releases you to be able to confront the pain without (as much) fear. There's also a shift in perspective that let's you know that a different way of feeling is possible. That's surprisingly powerful. > are you just finally looking at what you didn't want to all these years? Yes, exactly this. > Do you need to take psychedelics to look? Perhaps not, but anecdotal evidence and a growing amount of research suggests it helps tremendously, especially in cases where it is very hard for people to look at themselves whilst sober. > I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that psychedelics was just a fad. I don't see how this follows from anything you've said.
tosstossy 9y ago
Wow, you don't have any experience with these drugs, do you?
- moretai 9y ago
  What if I did? Would that have validated my comments and prevented the downvoting?
  - bduerst 9y ago
    It might be because there are people who have experienced otherwise and you seem to be speaking in generalizations instead of experience. This is anecdotal, but taking MDMA once, recreationally and not in a theraputic sessions, helped me with social anxiety. The best analogy I can give is like you're playing a NES game, and it's glitching all over parts of the screen. You're still able to play, but there's interference that you just eventually learn to ignore, even though it is wearing on your experience. MDMA is like hitting the reset button and the glitches are gone. You realize there's a beauty that you've been missing this entire time, because you grew to view life through this filter. Again, this isn't true of everyone's experience but studies are starting to show it's able to help certain people that can use it.
    - moretai 9y ago
      This is not my original thought, but what if that "beauty" is manufactured? What if it's not genuine beauty, but an illusion created by your mind to validate the experience of taking the MDMA? I guess the research would prove whether that's the case. I realize that's a pretty extreme statement to make. But from what I understand, we hardly realize how the mind works. I am not saying don't dismiss the research. I just wonder if we are trying to sell psychedelics as a magic pill, when maybe just awareness is all you need. What about people who have bad trips on these drugs? Do we dismiss them as people who aren't just suppose to take psychedelics?
      - tosstossy 9y ago
        I can't speak for everyone, but psychedelics really help one internalize that beauty is perceived. Everything we experience is through a perception filter. Psychedelics are an effective means of clearing the filter of all the constraints a person accumulates in the course of life. Culture, society, education, religion, it all serves to build the filters up. If one finds beauty in the world under the influence of psychedelics, in my experience it tends to persist long after the drugs have left the system.
boldlybold 9y ago
Read some of the research on psychedelic medicine, and come back to your post. People's lives have been changed by this, long term. Adults with autism, PTSD, substance abuse, end-of-life cancer patients with terrible anxiety. It doesn't matter what the culture behind these substances is. They work for the people that need them. The results should speak for themselves.
- moretai 9y ago
  I'll read the papers on MAPs and get back to you.
theonemind 9y ago
Well, as far as I understand it, MDMA gives you the ability to examine the trauma without fear or anxiety; taking it doesn't drop secret knowledge in your lap, even randomly. I'd liken it to having a hazmat suit to perform a cleanup. You don't get anything by putting on the hazmat suit. You get something by not having to stay in the room with a toxic chemical spill anymore that you couldn't get close enough to clean up without the suit. It's a vehicle, not a destination. Yeah, if you get in and rev the accelerator without putting the car in gear, you're not going anywhere. The benefits should largely come in conjunction with therapy.

wavefunction 9y ago

You sound like you haven't tried either MDMA or mushrooms from reading your post. I can't speak for everyone but the stuff you think is 'all bullshit' seems to be pretty common experience even among people who don't know Terrence McKenna or George Harrison from lil Jeffy Sessions. And psychedelic use has been deeply ingrained in various human cultures all over the world for thousands (tens of thousands? hundreds of thousands?) of years. Taking psychedelics as part of a religious ceremony or ritual to rid oneself of suffering is part of indigenous traditions in the Americas, Europe, Africa, Asia and Australia/Oceania. I'd say the historical traditions and these new studies should convince even you that there is no fad involved in human psychotropic use.

moretai 9y ago
>Taking psychedelics as part of a religious ceremony or ritual to rid oneself of suffering is part of indigenous traditions in the Americas, Europe, Africa, Asia and Australia/Oceania. Could you link me to some research about this? I have heard this talked about, but I haven't found anything reliable.
- tosstossy 9y ago
  This may be of interest https://books.google.com/books?id=Jj8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA101#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=Jj8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA101#v=on...
- wavefunction 9y ago
  I think this article has some good examples of cultures and traditions you can google for further info: https://www.culturalsurvival.org/publications/cultural-survival-quarterly/hallucinogenic-plants-and-their-use-traditional-societies https://www.culturalsurvival.org/publications/cultural-survi...

n4r9 9y ago

I've experienced a trauma-induced anxiety disorder and mdma experiences. You seem to reach a certain level of insight but then suddenly turn strangely dismissive. > the high you get is a distraction from the pain you are feeling Sort of. The feeling is of an assurance, a joyful security that releases you to be able to confront the pain without (as much) fear. There's also a shift in perspective that let's you know that a different way of feeling is possible. That's surprisingly powerful. > are you just finally looking at what you didn't want to all these years? Yes, exactly this. > Do you need to take psychedelics to look? Perhaps not, but anecdotal evidence and a growing amount of research suggests it helps tremendously, especially in cases where it is very hard for people to look at themselves whilst sober. > I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that psychedelics was just a fad. I don't see how this follows from anything you've said.

tosstossy 9y ago

Wow, you don't have any experience with these drugs, do you?

moretai 9y ago
What if I did? Would that have validated my comments and prevented the downvoting?
- bduerst 9y ago
  It might be because there are people who have experienced otherwise and you seem to be speaking in generalizations instead of experience. This is anecdotal, but taking MDMA once, recreationally and not in a theraputic sessions, helped me with social anxiety. The best analogy I can give is like you're playing a NES game, and it's glitching all over parts of the screen. You're still able to play, but there's interference that you just eventually learn to ignore, even though it is wearing on your experience. MDMA is like hitting the reset button and the glitches are gone. You realize there's a beauty that you've been missing this entire time, because you grew to view life through this filter. Again, this isn't true of everyone's experience but studies are starting to show it's able to help certain people that can use it.
  - moretai 9y ago
    This is not my original thought, but what if that "beauty" is manufactured? What if it's not genuine beauty, but an illusion created by your mind to validate the experience of taking the MDMA? I guess the research would prove whether that's the case. I realize that's a pretty extreme statement to make. But from what I understand, we hardly realize how the mind works. I am not saying don't dismiss the research. I just wonder if we are trying to sell psychedelics as a magic pill, when maybe just awareness is all you need. What about people who have bad trips on these drugs? Do we dismiss them as people who aren't just suppose to take psychedelics?
    - tosstossy 9y ago
      I can't speak for everyone, but psychedelics really help one internalize that beauty is perceived. Everything we experience is through a perception filter. Psychedelics are an effective means of clearing the filter of all the constraints a person accumulates in the course of life. Culture, society, education, religion, it all serves to build the filters up. If one finds beauty in the world under the influence of psychedelics, in my experience it tends to persist long after the drugs have left the system.

boldlybold 9y ago

Read some of the research on psychedelic medicine, and come back to your post. People's lives have been changed by this, long term. Adults with autism, PTSD, substance abuse, end-of-life cancer patients with terrible anxiety. It doesn't matter what the culture behind these substances is. They work for the people that need them. The results should speak for themselves.

moretai 9y ago
I'll read the papers on MAPs and get back to you.

theonemind 9y ago

Well, as far as I understand it, MDMA gives you the ability to examine the trauma without fear or anxiety; taking it doesn't drop secret knowledge in your lap, even randomly. I'd liken it to having a hazmat suit to perform a cleanup. You don't get anything by putting on the hazmat suit. You get something by not having to stay in the room with a toxic chemical spill anymore that you couldn't get close enough to clean up without the suit. It's a vehicle, not a destination. Yeah, if you get in and rev the accelerator without putting the car in gear, you're not going anywhere. The benefits should largely come in conjunction with therapy.