4 ms·

Should they just lie instead? What's the objective? I think the retraining is a neoliberal dog whistle for 'these people deserve their current lives'. If the

Should they just lie instead? What's the objective? I think the retraining is a neoliberal dog whistle for 'these people deserve their current lives'. If the objective is to run a campaign that's consistent with (or an affirmation of) elite coastal values, then harping on retraining is exactly the right thing to do. If you want to want the most votes, you have to appeal to the most amount of people. Making coastal elites the outgroup is smart because there aren't that many of them and they probably support one of their own anyway.

thaumaturgy 9y ago
> I think the retraining is a neoliberal dog whistle for 'these people deserve their current lives'. I have to agree with you here. You see this implied in comment threads like this one too, that they're making choices that are ultimately causing their own situation. Contrast this with similar articles involving impoverished people in urban environments, especially those with other skin colors, and the difference is stark. I think Democrats have largely written these people off, and they've lost a lot of political power because of it, and they're still running around and looking for fault everywhere else but in their own politics. From an impoverished rural perspective, "the government will bring you jobs" and "the government will provide retraining programs" are exactly the wrong messages and goes to show how out of touch Democrats are with these voters. From these peoples' perspective, the government is the source of many of their troubles. The government gives them a disability check that isn't enough to live on, and then threatens to take it away for any of a vast number of reasons; the government shut down the companies that gave them jobs; the government provides all kinds of programs for other people, but not for them (e.g. affirmative action). The moment a politician says, "the government can fix your problems, and I represent the government", they lose this audience.
rbanffy 9y ago
If you want to know what I would do to make these lives better, it'd be campaigning for universal basic income. Unfortunately, that would be labeled "socialism" and made political suicide in seconds. An alternative would be to heavily subsidize housing, food, gas, healthcare, medicine and do that disguised as an attempt to bootstrap a local self-sufficient economy. It'd actually be a lot more socialist than UBI but politics is the art of the possible and not all state transitions are allowed.
- alexanderstears 9y ago
  Unfortunately, that would be labeled "socialism" and made political suicide in seconds. If you think that's true then it is, right? I have dissident rightist view points. I hang out with dissident rightists. I've never once heard them say that UBI is worse than the status quo, and I think pairing UBI with reduced low-skill immigration is something 95% of them could get behind. Sure, the Paul Ryans and Pelosis of the world might gnash their teeth over UBI but it's something that nearly everyone outside the status quo supports.
  - rbanffy 9y ago
    Most of my right wing friends are the Ayn Rand kind and are deeply offended by the idea of paying other people to live.
    - alexanderstears 9y ago
      Ask them whether they'd prefer UBI or the current system assuming both cost the same.
      - rbanffy 9y ago
        I did. It's a principle thing. That odd notion that if you can't feed yourself you don't deserve to be fed.
        alexanderstears 9y ago
        They might have fooled you with that answer but that doesn't address the question.

thaumaturgy 9y ago

> I think the retraining is a neoliberal dog whistle for 'these people deserve their current lives'. I have to agree with you here. You see this implied in comment threads like this one too, that they're making choices that are ultimately causing their own situation. Contrast this with similar articles involving impoverished people in urban environments, especially those with other skin colors, and the difference is stark. I think Democrats have largely written these people off, and they've lost a lot of political power because of it, and they're still running around and looking for fault everywhere else but in their own politics. From an impoverished rural perspective, "the government will bring you jobs" and "the government will provide retraining programs" are exactly the wrong messages and goes to show how out of touch Democrats are with these voters. From these peoples' perspective, the government is the source of many of their troubles. The government gives them a disability check that isn't enough to live on, and then threatens to take it away for any of a vast number of reasons; the government shut down the companies that gave them jobs; the government provides all kinds of programs for other people, but not for them (e.g. affirmative action). The moment a politician says, "the government can fix your problems, and I represent the government", they lose this audience.

rbanffy 9y ago

If you want to know what I would do to make these lives better, it'd be campaigning for universal basic income. Unfortunately, that would be labeled "socialism" and made political suicide in seconds. An alternative would be to heavily subsidize housing, food, gas, healthcare, medicine and do that disguised as an attempt to bootstrap a local self-sufficient economy. It'd actually be a lot more socialist than UBI but politics is the art of the possible and not all state transitions are allowed.

alexanderstears 9y ago
Unfortunately, that would be labeled "socialism" and made political suicide in seconds. If you think that's true then it is, right? I have dissident rightist view points. I hang out with dissident rightists. I've never once heard them say that UBI is worse than the status quo, and I think pairing UBI with reduced low-skill immigration is something 95% of them could get behind. Sure, the Paul Ryans and Pelosis of the world might gnash their teeth over UBI but it's something that nearly everyone outside the status quo supports.
- rbanffy 9y ago
  Most of my right wing friends are the Ayn Rand kind and are deeply offended by the idea of paying other people to live.
  - alexanderstears 9y ago
    Ask them whether they'd prefer UBI or the current system assuming both cost the same.
    - rbanffy 9y ago
      I did. It's a principle thing. That odd notion that if you can't feed yourself you don't deserve to be fed.
      - alexanderstears 9y ago
        They might have fooled you with that answer but that doesn't address the question.