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I don't disagree with you, but I think there's a lot of people see the kind of people in the article as the opposition to progressive social issues like #BLM, a

I don't disagree with you, but I think there's a lot of people see the kind of people in the article as the opposition to progressive social issues like #BLM, acceptance of immigrants and the very same socialist policies that they survive off of and need to be expanded if these people are to see their lot in life improve. Rural communities overwhelmingly voted for Trump and they form the core of the Fox News constituency. The government they elected is now trying to take away their health care and give a massive tax cut to the top 1%. You'd probably see a lot more compassion among big-city liberals if these communities had embraced Bernie Sanders' agenda which would have redistributed a lot of wealth into their communities. But with their embrace of white nationalist policies and rhetoric, I think you see a lot of liberals feeling like they don't have the energy to care about all of the powerless people in this country and, instead, are focusing what limited resources they have on trying to help other oppressed groups (minorities, undocumented immigrants, etc.)

jrs95 9y ago
Is "acceptance of immigrants" really a progressive social issue, or is it a pro-business economic issue with excellent marketing? In my opinion it's sort of ironic to promote that and socialism in the same sentence. Bernie Sanders in particular has been opposed to increased immigration in the past. I imagine he's not as vocal about that anymore because it's no longer politically viable.
- ryukafalz 9y ago
  In the same way it's a progressive social issue to support universal healthcare, I'd say it's a progressive issue to accept refugees and other immigrants trying to make better lives for themselves. The common thread is empathy and a desire to help those less fortunate.
toomuchtodo 9y ago
> You'd probably see a lot more compassion among big-city liberals if these communities had embraced Bernie Sanders' agenda which would have redistributed a lot of wealth into their communities. Blue Blood Democrats pushed Bernie off the national stage attempting to elect Hillary Clinton, leaving the disadvantaged to only vote for the candidate who offered to champion their cause (Donald Trump). I don't fault most Trump voters one bit. The superior option they had was scuttled by a power hungry candidate who lost to the worst candidate for presidency ever. > But with their embrace of white nationalist policies and rhetoric, I think you see a lot of liberals feeling like they don't have the energy to care about all of the powerless people in this country and, instead, are focusing what limited resources they have on trying to help other oppressed groups (minorities, undocumented immigrants, etc.) Which causes conservative America to double down on conservatives in office. Wash, rinse, repeat. EDIT: "Undocumented immigrants" are not citizens being oppressed; they are illegally in the country and should be deported unless covered under DACA (having arrived in the US as minors).
- curun1r 9y ago
  > Blue Blood Democrats pushed Bernie off the national stage attempting to elect Hillary Clinton What the DNC did in last year's primary was shameful, but... > leaving the disadvantaged to only vote for the candidate who offered to champion their cause (Donald Trump) Laughs...he never championed their cause. He told them all their problems were because of minorities and that he'd return the country to a time of bigotry and racism where things would magically be better because they were white. He's since taken the office of The President and used it to try to screw over poor whites in every way imaginable and tried to placate them by making it even worse for minorities. It's hard to blame under-educated people for falling for Fox News propaganda, but you still can't deny their complicity in enabling their own situation. What they did in the general election to defeat Hilary they could have done in the Primary to support Bernie. They didn't.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    > Laughs...he never championed their cause. This stance is part of the problem. https://www.google.com/search?q=bring+jobs+back+trump+youtube https://www.google.com/search?q=bring+jobs+back+trump+youtub... https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+coal+jobs+youtube https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+coal+jobs+youtube https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+carrier+jobs+youtube https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+carrier+jobs+youtube He promised the disadvantaged he'd get their jobs back from Mexico and China, he promised to bring coal jobs back. Whether he did those things or not doesn't matter. That's what he promised. > It's hard to blame under-educated people for falling for Fox News propaganda, but you still can't deny their complicity in enabling their own situation. What they did in the general election to defeat Hilary they could have done in the Primary to support Bernie. They didn't. I don't blame undereducated people. I blame people who care more about illegal immigrants than the disenfranchised citizens suffering in poverty in the US. I blame urban liberals who have no comprehension of the plight the poor in the US are suffering through. I blame upper management of the Democratic Party, who rigged the nomination (along with super delegates) against Bernie Sanders, and I wish nothing but terrible, terrible things on those people. EDIT: Hillary Clinton is nowhere to be found after her crushing defeat, and Bernie Sanders is still out there every day fighting for universal healthcare and other pro-citizen policies (alongside Elizabeth Warren). We suffered a terrible loss because of Clinton's vanity and pride.
EADGBE 9y ago
I didn't get that from this article. I didn't see as much of a political problem as I saw a human problem.
- curun1r 9y ago
  The problems from the article are definitely human problems. The comment I was replying to was about why more people don't care, which absolutely is a political problem.
indubitable 9y ago
I think in many ways Trump and Sanders had the same appeal to very different demographics. We've all come to understand that politicians are mostly liars. And I think Trump represented what was seen as a break from the mold because he seemed authentic. He said things that you're not "supposed" to say, he acted in a way you're not "supposed" to act. In general, he seemed to be being a person and not a politician. He made lots of promises as all politicians do, but I think his behavior being far outside of the mold gave people hope and optimism that he was being genuine - that he would actually fight to bring jobs back, work to curtail foreign competition for what jobs there are, and so on. Sanders similarly broke the mold of a politician. Polls show socialism focus tests somewhere near the apocalypse, yet Sanders openly called himself a democratic socialist. And he talked about many things that have become completely taboo in politics including the corrupting influence of banks paired with a completely myopic monetary policy, single payer healthcare systems, corporate tax avoidance (something Trump also hit on), and more. He said things you're not supposed to say, and so I think we also viewed him as breaking the mold of a politician - and being somebody that might genuinely work to do the things he is talking about. The behavior you're describing is why it's particularly tough for the two sides to ever see eye to eye. Imagine you were one of these disenfranchised poor living threadbare and barely getting by ever since the day you were born --- and the national discussion was on how to try to treat individuals who came into the country illegally better. That sort of thing breeds resentment. That resentment in turn is then characterized as racism. And that perceived racism in turn denigrates their own position even more, which results in even more empathy for immigrants leading to even greater resentment, and so on. It's a vicious cycle. I wish there 'domestic exchange programs.' Have a substantial number of individuals living in one side of the bubble temporarily join a family living on the other side. I think peoples' eyes would be opened if they could see we all really just want the same thing - and that's a better life for the people. The only thing we disagree on is how to get there. But somehow in this process instead of seeing eye to eye we've instead characterized those that disagree with us as something less than rational humans capable of being swayed. And as both sides refuse to communicate to the other sides rationally this sort of inhumanity becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

jrs95 9y ago

Is "acceptance of immigrants" really a progressive social issue, or is it a pro-business economic issue with excellent marketing? In my opinion it's sort of ironic to promote that and socialism in the same sentence. Bernie Sanders in particular has been opposed to increased immigration in the past. I imagine he's not as vocal about that anymore because it's no longer politically viable.

ryukafalz 9y ago
In the same way it's a progressive social issue to support universal healthcare, I'd say it's a progressive issue to accept refugees and other immigrants trying to make better lives for themselves. The common thread is empathy and a desire to help those less fortunate.

toomuchtodo 9y ago

> You'd probably see a lot more compassion among big-city liberals if these communities had embraced Bernie Sanders' agenda which would have redistributed a lot of wealth into their communities. Blue Blood Democrats pushed Bernie off the national stage attempting to elect Hillary Clinton, leaving the disadvantaged to only vote for the candidate who offered to champion their cause (Donald Trump). I don't fault most Trump voters one bit. The superior option they had was scuttled by a power hungry candidate who lost to the worst candidate for presidency ever. > But with their embrace of white nationalist policies and rhetoric, I think you see a lot of liberals feeling like they don't have the energy to care about all of the powerless people in this country and, instead, are focusing what limited resources they have on trying to help other oppressed groups (minorities, undocumented immigrants, etc.) Which causes conservative America to double down on conservatives in office. Wash, rinse, repeat. EDIT: "Undocumented immigrants" are not citizens being oppressed; they are illegally in the country and should be deported unless covered under DACA (having arrived in the US as minors).

curun1r 9y ago
> Blue Blood Democrats pushed Bernie off the national stage attempting to elect Hillary Clinton What the DNC did in last year's primary was shameful, but... > leaving the disadvantaged to only vote for the candidate who offered to champion their cause (Donald Trump) Laughs...he never championed their cause. He told them all their problems were because of minorities and that he'd return the country to a time of bigotry and racism where things would magically be better because they were white. He's since taken the office of The President and used it to try to screw over poor whites in every way imaginable and tried to placate them by making it even worse for minorities. It's hard to blame under-educated people for falling for Fox News propaganda, but you still can't deny their complicity in enabling their own situation. What they did in the general election to defeat Hilary they could have done in the Primary to support Bernie. They didn't.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  > Laughs...he never championed their cause. This stance is part of the problem. https://www.google.com/search?q=bring+jobs+back+trump+youtube https://www.google.com/search?q=bring+jobs+back+trump+youtub... https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+coal+jobs+youtube https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+coal+jobs+youtube https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+carrier+jobs+youtube https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+carrier+jobs+youtube He promised the disadvantaged he'd get their jobs back from Mexico and China, he promised to bring coal jobs back. Whether he did those things or not doesn't matter. That's what he promised. > It's hard to blame under-educated people for falling for Fox News propaganda, but you still can't deny their complicity in enabling their own situation. What they did in the general election to defeat Hilary they could have done in the Primary to support Bernie. They didn't. I don't blame undereducated people. I blame people who care more about illegal immigrants than the disenfranchised citizens suffering in poverty in the US. I blame urban liberals who have no comprehension of the plight the poor in the US are suffering through. I blame upper management of the Democratic Party, who rigged the nomination (along with super delegates) against Bernie Sanders, and I wish nothing but terrible, terrible things on those people. EDIT: Hillary Clinton is nowhere to be found after her crushing defeat, and Bernie Sanders is still out there every day fighting for universal healthcare and other pro-citizen policies (alongside Elizabeth Warren). We suffered a terrible loss because of Clinton's vanity and pride.

EADGBE 9y ago

I didn't get that from this article. I didn't see as much of a political problem as I saw a human problem.

curun1r 9y ago
The problems from the article are definitely human problems. The comment I was replying to was about why more people don't care, which absolutely is a political problem.

indubitable 9y ago

I think in many ways Trump and Sanders had the same appeal to very different demographics. We've all come to understand that politicians are mostly liars. And I think Trump represented what was seen as a break from the mold because he seemed authentic. He said things that you're not "supposed" to say, he acted in a way you're not "supposed" to act. In general, he seemed to be being a person and not a politician. He made lots of promises as all politicians do, but I think his behavior being far outside of the mold gave people hope and optimism that he was being genuine - that he would actually fight to bring jobs back, work to curtail foreign competition for what jobs there are, and so on. Sanders similarly broke the mold of a politician. Polls show socialism focus tests somewhere near the apocalypse, yet Sanders openly called himself a democratic socialist. And he talked about many things that have become completely taboo in politics including the corrupting influence of banks paired with a completely myopic monetary policy, single payer healthcare systems, corporate tax avoidance (something Trump also hit on), and more. He said things you're not supposed to say, and so I think we also viewed him as breaking the mold of a politician - and being somebody that might genuinely work to do the things he is talking about. The behavior you're describing is why it's particularly tough for the two sides to ever see eye to eye. Imagine you were one of these disenfranchised poor living threadbare and barely getting by ever since the day you were born --- and the national discussion was on how to try to treat individuals who came into the country illegally better. That sort of thing breeds resentment. That resentment in turn is then characterized as racism. And that perceived racism in turn denigrates their own position even more, which results in even more empathy for immigrants leading to even greater resentment, and so on. It's a vicious cycle. I wish there 'domestic exchange programs.' Have a substantial number of individuals living in one side of the bubble temporarily join a family living on the other side. I think peoples' eyes would be opened if they could see we all really just want the same thing - and that's a better life for the people. The only thing we disagree on is how to get there. But somehow in this process instead of seeing eye to eye we've instead characterized those that disagree with us as something less than rational humans capable of being swayed. And as both sides refuse to communicate to the other sides rationally this sort of inhumanity becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.