10 ms·

>because disability payments on average amount to less than minimum wage, sometimes much less, ... Why is this? How are these people expected to survive, if th

>because disability payments on average amount to less than minimum wage, sometimes much less, ... Why is this? How are these people expected to survive, if they are disabled to the point that they can't hold down a job, and aren't allowed to work without the risk of losing their disability payments? Busking? I know that's been one traditional job for disabled people over the centuries, but I feel like we should be able to do better.

refurb 9y ago
Disability is often done on a percentage basis. If you're completely unable to work you get 100%. If you can't stand for a long time, but can sit and work, you might get 30% disability. Even at 100% it's not a lot of money, but I've heard it's enough to exist.
- leggomylibro 9y ago
  So if you're at 30% disability because you can't stand for long periods or do physical labor, are you still allowed to hold down an office or clerical job where you work 30-50 hours a week? It might mean unique difficulties with things like transportation, but the government isn't paying you a salary under the understanding that you aren't fit to work, they're providing you a stipend to compensate for the unique difficulties of your situation. Or, if they are paying you a sort of salary under the understanding that you aren't fit to work, why is it below minimum wage when you demonstrably already have more problems than most people? Edit: Okay, reading the article shines a bit more light on this, but it's still very confusing. I can't imagine having to navigate these systems without any resources. And even then: >This means recipients receiving the maximum $735 check can earn up $1,555 per month and still be eligible for a disability payment. The maximum is under $9K/year? That is not a living wage for someone without disabilities.
  - deadmetheny 9y ago
    My sister is physically disabled and works a clerical job part-time. She continually has to watch her hours at her job because if she makes too much money, she is required to pay back the difference in her SSI disability cheque. Please note that her combined income from work and disability benefits is peanuts - it's enough to live on in a rural Midwestern town where things haven't gone up shit creek as badly as the Rust Belt and Appalachia, but it's no glamourous lifestyle and the requirement to stay underneath certain income lest you lose your SSI benefits is a perverse incentive not to try and find better work.
    - EADGBE 9y ago
      Hour limits imposed because of benefits do no beneficial good. In fact all they really accomplish is keeping people down.
- knz 9y ago
  > but I've heard it's enough to exist. How does health insurance/care work for these people? Do you automatically qualify for the government programs (MA?) if you are even partially disabled?
  - hiram112 9y ago
    With the ACA, you will qualify for full insurance due to grants. But if these people have already qualified for federal / state disability payments, they will almost certainly be entitled to some combination of SSDI / Medicare / Medicaid.
  - amigoingtodie 9y ago
    Medicaid, funded by the state. Some food subsidies via EBT or WIC. The more 'entrepreneurial' folks can also sell their prescriptions, subsidize other's food purchases w/ the EBT card (in exchange for cash), and make/sell moonshine.
  - refurb 9y ago
    If you receive SSI disability payments you qualify for Medicare even if you're not 65. However, you don't qualify until 2 years after you're eligible. People typically will go on Medicaid since they can't work and their low (or non-existent) income qualifies them for Medicaid.
- irrational 9y ago
  So, UBI is basically like being on 100% disability?
- lazerpants 9y ago
  Disability payments are also based on how much you've paid into Social Security. For example, if I were to go on disability tomorrow, I would receive about $1,800 a month, due to the payments I've made into the system (I just checked my Social Security account the other day). So the people who receive low disability payments are mostly people who have never had a job, or have not paid much into Social Security. I believe the floor for disability is $750 a month. Which isn't really okay, but many people on disability make enough to live on, so poverty is not an issue for all recipients of disability.
whipoodle 9y ago
We spent the last few decades dismantling whatever shambles of a social safety net we had, and we don't give a shit about people who can't afford to live. We say "get a job", and we just don't care.
- alexanderstears 9y ago
  Speak for yourself, I care deeply about the less fortunate - I just don't think that the social safety net is well designed or cost effective and I think pouring more money into it will just incentivize preying on the people caught in the net. I think there are solid ways to help people but that usually means investment in them, rather than increased dependence on the system. I'd gladly chip in for this lady to get a solar panel and battery, or a waterless toilet, or microhouse, or access to cheaper fuel. There's some pro-liberty stuff that would be great for the working poor: * less emissions laws on vehicles - it'd be cheaper to make fuel efficient vehicles at the expense of some NOX emissions * fewer zoning laws - it'd make micro housing more accessible * fewer renewable energy laws / less protectionism on solar - make off-grid systems more appealing A $10k investment in this lady's life would dramatically alter it. It would give her a toilet, better housing, and energy. Conversely, giving her an extra $100 or so per month might just go to beer and cigs so she can deal with how crappy her life is and doesn't really give her enough to get ahead. And that line about her brother having a quadruple bypass is icing on the cake. How much do you think we spent on that? 120k? We should keep the expenditures the same but give people a choice on how to spend it. Maybe the brother would have rolled the dice with Indian quality of care (i.e a 10k surgery) and split the savings with him - give him 50k cash for saving public money.
  - jjawssd 9y ago
    Are you suggesting that giving the poor huge amounts of money in one lump sum will help them more than giving them a smaller amount each month?
    - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
      Yes. When you give someone with a terrible quality of life a lump sum they spend more of it on stuff that improves their quality of life than they would if it were distributes as small payments over time. Look at what people do with tax returns. They spend it on big items that they couldn't justify budgeting and saving for otherwise.
reaperducer 9y ago
It's so the U.S. doesn't end up with an epidemic of people "on the dole" like they have in the U.K. PBS viewers may know it as Onslow Syndrome.
- thehardsphere 9y ago
  "Any more beer?"
- somecontext 9y ago
  In case anyone else was confused about the reference, it appears to be to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Keeping_Up_Appearances_characters#Onslow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Keeping_Up_Appearances... from the British sitcom "Keeping Up Appearances", written for the BBC but also airing in the US on PBS.

refurb 9y ago

Disability is often done on a percentage basis. If you're completely unable to work you get 100%. If you can't stand for a long time, but can sit and work, you might get 30% disability. Even at 100% it's not a lot of money, but I've heard it's enough to exist.

leggomylibro 9y ago
So if you're at 30% disability because you can't stand for long periods or do physical labor, are you still allowed to hold down an office or clerical job where you work 30-50 hours a week? It might mean unique difficulties with things like transportation, but the government isn't paying you a salary under the understanding that you aren't fit to work, they're providing you a stipend to compensate for the unique difficulties of your situation. Or, if they are paying you a sort of salary under the understanding that you aren't fit to work, why is it below minimum wage when you demonstrably already have more problems than most people? Edit: Okay, reading the article shines a bit more light on this, but it's still very confusing. I can't imagine having to navigate these systems without any resources. And even then: >This means recipients receiving the maximum $735 check can earn up $1,555 per month and still be eligible for a disability payment. The maximum is under $9K/year? That is not a living wage for someone without disabilities.
- deadmetheny 9y ago
  My sister is physically disabled and works a clerical job part-time. She continually has to watch her hours at her job because if she makes too much money, she is required to pay back the difference in her SSI disability cheque. Please note that her combined income from work and disability benefits is peanuts - it's enough to live on in a rural Midwestern town where things haven't gone up shit creek as badly as the Rust Belt and Appalachia, but it's no glamourous lifestyle and the requirement to stay underneath certain income lest you lose your SSI benefits is a perverse incentive not to try and find better work.
  - EADGBE 9y ago
    Hour limits imposed because of benefits do no beneficial good. In fact all they really accomplish is keeping people down.
knz 9y ago
> but I've heard it's enough to exist. How does health insurance/care work for these people? Do you automatically qualify for the government programs (MA?) if you are even partially disabled?
- hiram112 9y ago
  With the ACA, you will qualify for full insurance due to grants. But if these people have already qualified for federal / state disability payments, they will almost certainly be entitled to some combination of SSDI / Medicare / Medicaid.
- amigoingtodie 9y ago
  Medicaid, funded by the state. Some food subsidies via EBT or WIC. The more 'entrepreneurial' folks can also sell their prescriptions, subsidize other's food purchases w/ the EBT card (in exchange for cash), and make/sell moonshine.
- refurb 9y ago
  If you receive SSI disability payments you qualify for Medicare even if you're not 65. However, you don't qualify until 2 years after you're eligible. People typically will go on Medicaid since they can't work and their low (or non-existent) income qualifies them for Medicaid.
irrational 9y ago
So, UBI is basically like being on 100% disability?
lazerpants 9y ago
Disability payments are also based on how much you've paid into Social Security. For example, if I were to go on disability tomorrow, I would receive about $1,800 a month, due to the payments I've made into the system (I just checked my Social Security account the other day). So the people who receive low disability payments are mostly people who have never had a job, or have not paid much into Social Security. I believe the floor for disability is $750 a month. Which isn't really okay, but many people on disability make enough to live on, so poverty is not an issue for all recipients of disability.

whipoodle 9y ago

We spent the last few decades dismantling whatever shambles of a social safety net we had, and we don't give a shit about people who can't afford to live. We say "get a job", and we just don't care.

alexanderstears 9y ago
Speak for yourself, I care deeply about the less fortunate - I just don't think that the social safety net is well designed or cost effective and I think pouring more money into it will just incentivize preying on the people caught in the net. I think there are solid ways to help people but that usually means investment in them, rather than increased dependence on the system. I'd gladly chip in for this lady to get a solar panel and battery, or a waterless toilet, or microhouse, or access to cheaper fuel. There's some pro-liberty stuff that would be great for the working poor: * less emissions laws on vehicles - it'd be cheaper to make fuel efficient vehicles at the expense of some NOX emissions * fewer zoning laws - it'd make micro housing more accessible * fewer renewable energy laws / less protectionism on solar - make off-grid systems more appealing A $10k investment in this lady's life would dramatically alter it. It would give her a toilet, better housing, and energy. Conversely, giving her an extra $100 or so per month might just go to beer and cigs so she can deal with how crappy her life is and doesn't really give her enough to get ahead. And that line about her brother having a quadruple bypass is icing on the cake. How much do you think we spent on that? 120k? We should keep the expenditures the same but give people a choice on how to spend it. Maybe the brother would have rolled the dice with Indian quality of care (i.e a 10k surgery) and split the savings with him - give him 50k cash for saving public money.
- jjawssd 9y ago
  Are you suggesting that giving the poor huge amounts of money in one lump sum will help them more than giving them a smaller amount each month?
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    Yes. When you give someone with a terrible quality of life a lump sum they spend more of it on stuff that improves their quality of life than they would if it were distributes as small payments over time. Look at what people do with tax returns. They spend it on big items that they couldn't justify budgeting and saving for otherwise.

reaperducer 9y ago

It's so the U.S. doesn't end up with an epidemic of people "on the dole" like they have in the U.K. PBS viewers may know it as Onslow Syndrome.

thehardsphere 9y ago
"Any more beer?"
somecontext 9y ago
In case anyone else was confused about the reference, it appears to be to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Keeping_Up_Appearances_characters#Onslow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Keeping_Up_Appearances... from the British sitcom "Keeping Up Appearances", written for the BBC but also airing in the US on PBS.