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What makes you think these people wouldn't already have jobs as engineers and technicians if they were capable of that? It even mentions in the article that the

by gph 9y ago

What makes you think these people wouldn't already have jobs as engineers and technicians if they were capable of that? It even mentions in the article that the one lady lives down the road from her nephew who has a nice house with trucks and a boat. He was pulling down 100k at a coal related job, that might mean in a labor role but there's a good chance he's the type of person you're talking about; someone capable of filling a sort of lower-level engineer/technician role. Edit: That's not to say there aren't a few capable folks that fell on rough times or came from a rough background and never quite got a good enough opportunity to make something of themselves. Certainly it would be nice to have programs to help those folks reach the full extent of their capabilities. But that's definitely not a solution for the broad majority of people in this situation.

forkandwait 9y ago
I am amazed by the pervasiveness of the assumption that most of the human race is inherently just too stupid to become upper middle like us.
- weberc2 9y ago
  Yeah, especially if you're rural or inner-city.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  Well, half of the population has an IQ of less than 100. Also, if everyone tries to achieve greater education, then what's considered "upper middle" will shift. Just look at the devaluation of associates and bachelors degrees today. The sad truth is that there will always be lower and lower-middle class jobs, because not everyone is capable of joining the upper-middle class. Should those people continue to experience a declining quality of life just because they haven't been genetically or socioeconomically blessed?
- megaman22 9y ago
  It's tough not to have that feeling, if you exist outside of bubbles of well-educated, high-IQ people. Shit, half the kids I grew up with were so LD they struggled mightily to learn how to read and do basic arithmetic, and another quarter were so low that they were labeled as MR. They don't have the capacity, no matter how much training and money and lamentations you spend on them. It's sad that people like that can't have a little dignity and make a living doing what they're capable of, but that's where we're headed.
- wan23 9y ago
  It's not stupidity, it's a combination of factors. 1) Lack of knowledge of options. Let's say you wanted to get into the oil business. Without Googling anything, what job would you want? What skills and credentials would you need to acquire to get that job? How would you go about getting those? 2) Lack of education - Imagine trying to learn how to program without knowing what variables are. And then let's say you struggle and become capable of doing junior web dev work. What happens when you encounter even an easy interview question like "Write a program to find the first n prime numbers" 3) Lack of time - Most adults don't have time to focus full time on training, even if they aren't working. Children and elderly family members can suck up a lot of time.
  - noworld 9y ago
    1) Without googling anything, I'd need... presentable clothes, good hygiene, and to be able to make sense when I talk and respond sensibly to questions. Get into the oil business? Everyone's got a mail room, janitorial staff, etc. Get a job doing that and show them that you can show up for work on time and do a good job at the mundane stuff with a friendly attitude, no complaining, and not causing drama. That goes a LONG way. The other items follow this one.
- philipkglass 9y ago
  If every low-wage worker could start writing software, then writing software for an employer would also become a low-wage job. We're not paid well just because we have useful skills. We're paid well because the demand for our kind of skills hasn't been swamped by supply.
weberc2 9y ago
One obvious answer to your question is that they lack affordable access to training, which is what the OP purposes to address. Of course it's entirely possible that providing said training is economically infeasible or that most of these folks (as you seem to presume) aren't a good fit for this type of work.

by gph 9y ago

forkandwait 9y ago

I am amazed by the pervasiveness of the assumption that most of the human race is inherently just too stupid to become upper middle like us.

weberc2 9y ago
Yeah, especially if you're rural or inner-city.
TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
Well, half of the population has an IQ of less than 100. Also, if everyone tries to achieve greater education, then what's considered "upper middle" will shift. Just look at the devaluation of associates and bachelors degrees today. The sad truth is that there will always be lower and lower-middle class jobs, because not everyone is capable of joining the upper-middle class. Should those people continue to experience a declining quality of life just because they haven't been genetically or socioeconomically blessed?
megaman22 9y ago
It's tough not to have that feeling, if you exist outside of bubbles of well-educated, high-IQ people. Shit, half the kids I grew up with were so LD they struggled mightily to learn how to read and do basic arithmetic, and another quarter were so low that they were labeled as MR. They don't have the capacity, no matter how much training and money and lamentations you spend on them. It's sad that people like that can't have a little dignity and make a living doing what they're capable of, but that's where we're headed.
wan23 9y ago
It's not stupidity, it's a combination of factors. 1) Lack of knowledge of options. Let's say you wanted to get into the oil business. Without Googling anything, what job would you want? What skills and credentials would you need to acquire to get that job? How would you go about getting those? 2) Lack of education - Imagine trying to learn how to program without knowing what variables are. And then let's say you struggle and become capable of doing junior web dev work. What happens when you encounter even an easy interview question like "Write a program to find the first n prime numbers" 3) Lack of time - Most adults don't have time to focus full time on training, even if they aren't working. Children and elderly family members can suck up a lot of time.
- noworld 9y ago
  1) Without googling anything, I'd need... presentable clothes, good hygiene, and to be able to make sense when I talk and respond sensibly to questions. Get into the oil business? Everyone's got a mail room, janitorial staff, etc. Get a job doing that and show them that you can show up for work on time and do a good job at the mundane stuff with a friendly attitude, no complaining, and not causing drama. That goes a LONG way. The other items follow this one.
philipkglass 9y ago
If every low-wage worker could start writing software, then writing software for an employer would also become a low-wage job. We're not paid well just because we have useful skills. We're paid well because the demand for our kind of skills hasn't been swamped by supply.

weberc2 9y ago

One obvious answer to your question is that they lack affordable access to training, which is what the OP purposes to address. Of course it's entirely possible that providing said training is economically infeasible or that most of these folks (as you seem to presume) aren't a good fit for this type of work.