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> And everyone is on social security disability. I spent several years during and after university hitchhiking all around the world. After seeing most of Europ

> And everyone is on social security disability. I spent several years during and after university hitchhiking all around the world. After seeing most of Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa, I had a general idea of what kind of people are driving around during the day. And then I traveled across the USA . It turns out that benefits cheats are a very distinct category there in a way they aren’t a thing in most other countries (even Canada). With so many of my drivers, conversations would go like this: "So, what do you do?" "I’m on disability.” "Are you disabled?" "No, but I fool the government into giving me a cheque". They had nothing better to do during the day than drive around, though I have no idea how how they could afford petrol. > If you threw out the penalty for working... Indeed, basic income might be a better solution. It would let people claim benefits and work. And people would no longer have to be lying and deceitful to get their money; the prevalence of that kind of behaviour must have some spiritual impact on the community and trust in government. On the other hand, unlike certain countries that heavily fund culture in rural areas so that perpetually unemployed people have libraries and theatres and regional chamber orchestras to spend their time at productively, people in the complete cultural vacuum described in the linked article would probably continue to act self-destructively even with basic income.

thehardsphere 9y ago
> unlike certain countries that heavily fund culture in rural areas so that perpetually unemployed people have [places] to spend their time at productively Could you cite examples of what countries these are who pursue these policies for the stated objective of giving poor people things to do while not working? I've never heard of this as a policy objective before for subsidizing libraries and "culture", and I am very curious about how well it works.
- Mediterraneo10 9y ago
  The Nordic countries are good example; look at how many regional orchestras Finland has, for instance. The "stated objective" isn't expressly to give the unemployed something to do; rather, the general idea is that people in the provinces have the right to culture just as much as people in the big cities. But the consequence is that in backwaters where a substantial percentage of people are unemployed, they still have access to healthy activities, and to community gathering places that are non-profit and not centered around drinking.
jdietrich 9y ago
Sham disability is an integral part of the US welfare system, because it's politically expedient. It allows the government to pay poor people just enough to avoid a violent revolution, while sidestepping the issue of the "deserving poor". It also conveniently conceals the real rate of unemployment - you can pretend that your unemployment rate is 4.2% if you've recategorised most of your long-term unemployed citizens as disabled. The claimants aren't cheating the system, they're using it as it was designed to be used. Britain did much the same thing after the decline of heavy industry. The number of disability benefit claimants trebled in 20 years, concentrated almost entirely in towns that used to have a mine, a steel mill or a shipyard. In some parts of the UK, over 20% of the working-age population are claiming disability benefits. Staff at welfare offices were effectively coaching people on how to claim disability benefits, because it helped them meet their performance targets.
- m777z 9y ago
  This is one reason why employment/population ratio is probably a better measure of economic health than the unemployment rate.

thehardsphere 9y ago

> unlike certain countries that heavily fund culture in rural areas so that perpetually unemployed people have [places] to spend their time at productively Could you cite examples of what countries these are who pursue these policies for the stated objective of giving poor people things to do while not working? I've never heard of this as a policy objective before for subsidizing libraries and "culture", and I am very curious about how well it works.

Mediterraneo10 9y ago
The Nordic countries are good example; look at how many regional orchestras Finland has, for instance. The "stated objective" isn't expressly to give the unemployed something to do; rather, the general idea is that people in the provinces have the right to culture just as much as people in the big cities. But the consequence is that in backwaters where a substantial percentage of people are unemployed, they still have access to healthy activities, and to community gathering places that are non-profit and not centered around drinking.

jdietrich 9y ago

Sham disability is an integral part of the US welfare system, because it's politically expedient. It allows the government to pay poor people just enough to avoid a violent revolution, while sidestepping the issue of the "deserving poor". It also conveniently conceals the real rate of unemployment - you can pretend that your unemployment rate is 4.2% if you've recategorised most of your long-term unemployed citizens as disabled. The claimants aren't cheating the system, they're using it as it was designed to be used. Britain did much the same thing after the decline of heavy industry. The number of disability benefit claimants trebled in 20 years, concentrated almost entirely in towns that used to have a mine, a steel mill or a shipyard. In some parts of the UK, over 20% of the working-age population are claiming disability benefits. Staff at welfare offices were effectively coaching people on how to claim disability benefits, because it helped them meet their performance targets.

m777z 9y ago
This is one reason why employment/population ratio is probably a better measure of economic health than the unemployment rate.