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For those not familiar with the Penrose argument, here it is, slightly simplified: - Consciousness is weird and we can't explain it. - Quantum mechanics is we

For those not familiar with the Penrose argument, here it is, slightly simplified: - Consciousness is weird and we can't explain it. - Quantum mechanics is weird and we can't explain it. - Therefore, consciousness and human intelligence must come from quantum mechanics. Yeah, yeah, I know, that's obviously not how he frames it, but it's close. I read his book a few years ago, expecting some great insight but seriously, that's all there is to it. He actually claims that mathematicians have some magical ability to "see" in to a parallell universe of mathematical answers, an ability that computers lack. How can this argument even be taken seriously?

xtacy 16y ago
Quantum mechanics is weird, alright. But we can still predict what's going to happen, as we have theories. Do we have such a formal theory for consciousness?
- wlievens 16y ago
  Quantum mechanics is objectively observable, consciousness is not. It's a very different kind of beast, therefore.
Panoramix 16y ago
That's not how I understood it. It was more like: As a human, you can mentally rotate an object, recognize a face and do all these extremely expensive computations effortlessly. For doing that, you need to have a model of the local universe loaded up to your brain, which in addition is constantly filtering out hypothetical scenes and movements which do not satisfy the principle of least action (e.g., you don't think Steve Jobs is under your desk right now). Many of such computations, however, are of the kind that could easily be carried out by quantum computers, provided you would load them up with the correct model of their neighborhood. Now imagine that the many worlds interpretation of QM holds: All the things in the cosmos "span" multiple universes. There are an infinite number of replicas of yourself in ever so slightly different universes. If your brain is indeed a quantum computer, your brain is cross-linked to all your other brains. There is no need to load up any model anymore. All that you needed is to perceive the reality as it comes! Of course this "argument" (I would call it a theory) is full of holes, but the topic makes for some interesting talks with philosophers.

xtacy 16y ago

Quantum mechanics is weird, alright. But we can still predict what's going to happen, as we have theories. Do we have such a formal theory for consciousness?

wlievens 16y ago
Quantum mechanics is objectively observable, consciousness is not. It's a very different kind of beast, therefore.

Panoramix 16y ago

That's not how I understood it. It was more like: As a human, you can mentally rotate an object, recognize a face and do all these extremely expensive computations effortlessly. For doing that, you need to have a model of the local universe loaded up to your brain, which in addition is constantly filtering out hypothetical scenes and movements which do not satisfy the principle of least action (e.g., you don't think Steve Jobs is under your desk right now). Many of such computations, however, are of the kind that could easily be carried out by quantum computers, provided you would load them up with the correct model of their neighborhood. Now imagine that the many worlds interpretation of QM holds: All the things in the cosmos "span" multiple universes. There are an infinite number of replicas of yourself in ever so slightly different universes. If your brain is indeed a quantum computer, your brain is cross-linked to all your other brains. There is no need to load up any model anymore. All that you needed is to perceive the reality as it comes! Of course this "argument" (I would call it a theory) is full of holes, but the topic makes for some interesting talks with philosophers.