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The style of diplomacy China is using has also been practiced by the US and its allies. For example, in the early 1990's, just before the First Gulf War, Yemen

The style of diplomacy China is using has also been practiced by the US and its allies. For example, in the early 1990's, just before the First Gulf War, Yemen cast a UN vote against the resolution to invade Iraq. But, Yemen paid a hefty price after the US, Saudi Arabia and other allies retaliated: A member of the U.S. delegation candidly told the Yemeni ambassador that it was “the most expensive vote you ever cast,” and indeed it was, and might even play a part in the chaos there today. Not only did Washington cut off its $70 million foreign aid program, but the Saudis also abandoned their long-standing treaty with Yemen which allowed its nationals preferential treatment as immigrant workers. The Kingdom and the Gulf states brusquely repatriated a million or so Yemenis, whose missing remittances over the past two decades have contributed to the poverty and underdevelopment of the state. https://www.wrmea.org/2010-march/united-nations-report-a-costly-vote-yemen-paid-a-high-price-for-1990-security-council-veto.html https://www.wrmea.org/2010-march/united-nations-report-a-cos... EDIT: also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_678 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Counci...

ChuckMcM 9y ago
> The style of diplomacy China is using has also been practiced by the US and its allies. That was my point exactly. If you're the top dog, you can do this kind of stuff and get away with it. What the future holds, with an ascendant China, is that they will continue to put this kind of pressure on other countries and we will be unable to counter it so it will work against us.
- isr 9y ago
  To be more precise, the point is really this: Up till now, Western countries have been able to do "this kind of stuff and get away with it". Now, a non-Western country is able to do this stuff to "Western countries", and get away with it. So naturally, denizens of said "Western countries" will be aghast, upset, indignant (pick your emotion). While denizens of, well, the rest of the world, might well be laughing their asses off.
  - candiodari 9y ago
    Well, except said rest world denizens from Taiwan, Thailand, South Korea, Nepal, Vietnam, India, Japan and the rest of the countries China wants to screw over. They'll just be terrified. For good reason. This list probably soon will include Pakistan, Afghanistan, and essentially all Southwestern Asiatic countries. Hell, someone might look at a map of China from before Ww1 or so, look at it now, look again saying "wtf", and decide that these people obviously want to conquer a LOT. At which point it'll be China vs the world. And, historically, China has started such conflicts, they're just not very important for western history because the west really wasn't very important for most of history. China eventually lost those conflicts, but not without inflicting massive damage. First to a lot of other countries, then more and more to themselves. Oh and lest I forget, if you want human rights ... You should be very apprehensive about China. Giving in to western demands has in most cases led to massive improvements in the lot of the average person. China is ... different.
    - isr 9y ago
      > This list probably soon will include Pakistan, ... Anyone with even a passing knowledge of Pak-China relations would really be laughing their ass of at this. I won't even bother to correct you there. > At which point it'll be China vs the world. And, historically, China has started such conflicts, Aha, spoken like someone desperate to convince others that the big bad Chinaman is really out to get them. China has issues with its immediate neighbours. And I'm not here to make any claims pro or anti China on those. In many ways, its a consequence of having a large country, surrounded by others - all of whom have a history where they can point to themselves being victimised by the others (while each side conveniently forgets when they were the ones doing the victimisation) > Oh and lest I forget, if you want human rights ... What? If I want human rights I should listen to the side which murders civilians across the globe, via drones and trigger-happy killers sitting in a cubicle with a joystick? Or the one which kidnaps civilians around the world, throws them into various torture centers, and when done, usually dumps them in an offshore gulag in Cuba? Oops, thats all from the same side. Seriously, that old argument of "listen to the West, we know whats best for your human rights" really doesn't swallow easily outside of, well, the West. > You should be very apprehensive about China Sure. As apprehensive as we should be about, err, you lot. Fair enough?

ChuckMcM 9y ago

> The style of diplomacy China is using has also been practiced by the US and its allies. That was my point exactly. If you're the top dog, you can do this kind of stuff and get away with it. What the future holds, with an ascendant China, is that they will continue to put this kind of pressure on other countries and we will be unable to counter it so it will work against us.

isr 9y ago
To be more precise, the point is really this: Up till now, Western countries have been able to do "this kind of stuff and get away with it". Now, a non-Western country is able to do this stuff to "Western countries", and get away with it. So naturally, denizens of said "Western countries" will be aghast, upset, indignant (pick your emotion). While denizens of, well, the rest of the world, might well be laughing their asses off.
- candiodari 9y ago
  Well, except said rest world denizens from Taiwan, Thailand, South Korea, Nepal, Vietnam, India, Japan and the rest of the countries China wants to screw over. They'll just be terrified. For good reason. This list probably soon will include Pakistan, Afghanistan, and essentially all Southwestern Asiatic countries. Hell, someone might look at a map of China from before Ww1 or so, look at it now, look again saying "wtf", and decide that these people obviously want to conquer a LOT. At which point it'll be China vs the world. And, historically, China has started such conflicts, they're just not very important for western history because the west really wasn't very important for most of history. China eventually lost those conflicts, but not without inflicting massive damage. First to a lot of other countries, then more and more to themselves. Oh and lest I forget, if you want human rights ... You should be very apprehensive about China. Giving in to western demands has in most cases led to massive improvements in the lot of the average person. China is ... different.
  - isr 9y ago
    > This list probably soon will include Pakistan, ... Anyone with even a passing knowledge of Pak-China relations would really be laughing their ass of at this. I won't even bother to correct you there. > At which point it'll be China vs the world. And, historically, China has started such conflicts, Aha, spoken like someone desperate to convince others that the big bad Chinaman is really out to get them. China has issues with its immediate neighbours. And I'm not here to make any claims pro or anti China on those. In many ways, its a consequence of having a large country, surrounded by others - all of whom have a history where they can point to themselves being victimised by the others (while each side conveniently forgets when they were the ones doing the victimisation) > Oh and lest I forget, if you want human rights ... What? If I want human rights I should listen to the side which murders civilians across the globe, via drones and trigger-happy killers sitting in a cubicle with a joystick? Or the one which kidnaps civilians around the world, throws them into various torture centers, and when done, usually dumps them in an offshore gulag in Cuba? Oops, thats all from the same side. Seriously, that old argument of "listen to the West, we know whats best for your human rights" really doesn't swallow easily outside of, well, the West. > You should be very apprehensive about China Sure. As apprehensive as we should be about, err, you lot. Fair enough?