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Apple is really going downhill, in every field. I have a MacBook Pro, and the keys no longer work reliably. I also barely get 2 hours of battery life. High Si

Apple is really going downhill, in every field. I have a MacBook Pro, and the keys no longer work reliably. I also barely get 2 hours of battery life. High Sierra keeps restarting by itself. They removed the jack, and all ports from laptops. They placed the charger for their wireless mouse under the mouse so you can't use it while charging, and the list goes on and on--particularly with software. It's just not premium stuff anymore. I've already switched to Android, and I am not buying another computer from them.

jordache 9y ago
which mbp model?
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  2016. The keys are so shallow that after normal use (no crumbs or anything like that) they start having problems. As for battery life, they had to make it 4mm thinner just for the sake of it, and the screen sucks all the battery. I wish it was thicker but I could actually use it without keeping plugging it in.
  - artursapek 9y ago
    Oh, the emoji bar laptop? Yeah. I tried one of those when they showed up in the stores and the keyboard is pathetic. Ended up switching to a Thinkpad (should have done it years ago).
    - nkkollaw 9y ago
      Yes, I have the version without the touchbar, though. The keyboard is the best I've ever used in terms of typing, but it only lasted a few months, which is not what you'd expect for a premium laptop.
  - jordache 9y ago
    My 2016MBP just crashed from sleep wake twice within 1 hr.. Crash meaning I need to hold down the power button to force a hard reset. Apple you POS! THe only thing that keeps your MBP some what usasble is the "so far" stellar state restore post crash.
gowld 9y ago
Android and Microsoft have their own sets of equivalent problems. Software and hardware change too quickly now, no one has time to build quality
- nine_k 9y ago
  It also had choice.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  Sure, but at least they don't charge premium. I paid 275 for my Moto G5, and it's about 10 times better (IMO) than the last iPhone I owned, which cost 3 times as much.
  - jsight 9y ago
    The Moto devices feel like a well kept secret in the Android community. They are all priced well and the quality is generally quite good. Its too bad that the cameras tend to be subpar, though.
    - cjsuk 9y ago
      I’ve been abandoned on updates by Motorola or whoever it is owned by on the current whim within a year of buying my G2 and G3 handsets. I don’t feel I can trust them or Google with my cash. Not only that Google makes it difficult to consider your privacy because at every turn there’s a trap. And god forbid one goes wrong because the repair and aftercare service at least in the U.K. is dire. I was told a handset was water damaged after it failed. Turns out it’s shipped to a 3rd party repairer who blames it on you if they can’t fix it. I had to hit moneyclaim (small claims court) to get it back. Ergo I bought a 6s and have had zero problems with it. It just works.
      - lederhosen 9y ago
asdfasdfasd333 9y ago
lol
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  > almost as much effort as you put into picking your username.
cjsuk 9y ago
Annoyingly even with those problems which I agree with I find it’s the least shit thing. Note that I didn’t say the best because nothing has earned that title. This week I have lost a whole day of my life to printer problems on windows 10. Apple stuff in the house just prints!
- lederhosen 9y ago
  At work PCs just work. Macs can not print and a colleague of mine is a forced email printer for the UX people that _think_ they must use hardware they do not know how to use. All the time they complain about PC and how wonderful the macs are, but they can not even attach the computer to an external screen or projector. So experiences do differ...
aphextron 9y ago
Their software quality really has become atrocious. Just try recovering your iCloud password from the web. It takes (literally) weeks to do so.
- jamisteven 9y ago
  This is a blatant lie.
  - aphextron 9y ago
    >This is a blatant lie. No, it's not. Try recovering your iCloud password from the web right now. I couldn't believe it either. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204921 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204921 "For your security, recovery includes a waiting period that may be several days or longer depending on the information you can provide to verify your identity. Apple Support cannot help you shorten this time. "
    - debaserab2 9y ago
      If you want to reset your password, it's pretty much standard operating procedure: https://support.apple.com/en-us/ht201487 https://support.apple.com/en-us/ht201487 Not sure where you got that quote from - it's not in the link you pasted.
      - computerex 9y ago
        https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204921 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204921 Try this link. > Account recovery is an automated process designed to get you back into your Apple ID account* as quickly as possible and deny access to unauthorized users. For your security, recovery might take several days or longer, depending on the verification information that you can provide.
        debaserab2 9y ago
        It's still pretty disingenuous to suggest the process will usually take several days just for a "password reset". This is a pretty specific scenario where you've lost access to a device associated with your Apple ID, you're using two factor auth, and you've forgotten what your apple ID is. This isn't a password reset workflow at all.
giancarlostoro 9y ago
> They placed the charger for their wireless mouse under the mouse so you can't use it while charging, and the list goes on and on--particularly with software. Ouch, who let the intern design that one?... Kidding, but really did they not QA test this and how did nobody at QA not say this was a terrible idea? I'll stick to my wireless trackball..
- justinjlynn 9y ago
  QA? QA is for companies that make mistakes. /s
- humblebee 9y ago
  It's pretty terrible UX, but I can see how they came to the idea. If the mouse lasts all day, then surely the user will just charge it when they are done. However, this is a hard thing to train people to do. For people with a desk that step away at the end of the day, such as leaving the office) it is a bit easier to build the habit. However, if you are a user who uses the computer on and off all day, or doesn't have a permanent desk, it might be hard to remember to flip the mouse over and plug it in at the end of the night. Particularly if it's in your backpack. I don't personally use a mouse with a laptop, but I know plenty of people who do. The mouse also just looks weird when flipped over to charge, and you can't really try to even charge it while it's in a backpack if you wanted to, due to the 90deg angle it makes when plugged in.
  - giancarlostoro 9y ago
    Friend told me his wife leaves it charging when she's done using it at night. But I agree it's kind of terrible UX. On the other hand... The Marathon Mouse I bought years ago only needed new batteries 3 years after me having owned / used it daily, and it came with it's own batteries.
  - ribosometronome 9y ago
    The charge lasts months.
- themacguffinman 9y ago
hjaltij 9y ago
All the laptops ship with a headphone jack so not sure what you are talking about.
- jklein11 9y ago
  Likely they were talking about the iPhone 7, which does not come with a laptop jack.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - mcintyre1994 9y ago
    And the laptops only come with USB-C ports, and I'm yet to meet anybody who owns anything which can be plugged into one of those without a dongle (I suppose excluding their Mac charger :)).
    - epmaybe 9y ago
      I do wish they kept an SD card reader, I use that quite often and now have to use an adapter.
      - Chaebixi 9y ago
        Dongles are the future.
    - chipotle_coyote 9y ago
      I have one of the 2016 MBPs and while I bought a USB-A to USB-C dongle, I almost never use it. I have the USB-C to USB-C cable that came with it for power, and also (gasp) bought a couple new cables: one USB-C to Lightning, and one USB-C to Micro-USB. I get that people are upset that Apple's gone full bore on USB-C "early," but they did that with USB, period. When the first iMac came out in 1998, it was the first computer to have only USB ports--and pretty much nobody was making USB peripherals back then. (And one of the two USB ports on the iMac was guaranteed to be taken up by your keyboard/mouse, so as USB took off, Apple was also early to the "not having enough ports" game. Heyo!) There are legitimate things to complain about with the current MBP models; I don't like the keyboard, either, although I certainly don't have any problem with battery life. (My understanding is that it varies much more sharply than previous models depending on the system load.) I think only 2 USB-C ports on the low-end 13" model (the one I have) is too few. I think all of the laptops should probably have SD slots (c'mon, Jony, SD cards are thin, okay?). And at least so far, the Touch Bar hasn't justified itself. But when it comes to going all-in on USB-C, I'm not one of the ones who thinks that's a mistake on Apple's part. If anything, I think it's a mistake not to swap the Lightning port on the iPad Pro for a USB-C port.
saurik 9y ago
> I have a MacBook Pro, and the keys no longer work reliably. I have the 12" MacBook and the keyboard is absolutely miserable. I seriously got warned by the Apple Store when I bought it that if I got any dust on the keyboard at all that the keys would get stuck, which is totally unrealistic. It turned out to be true, which has meant I mostly just don't use a laptop anymore, as the keyboard is just so unpleasant. I have had it on my todo list to move all of my data back to my now-repaired 11" MacBook Air (which had a totally reasonable keyboard), but that entire task is just so depressing. A few days ago I was talking to someone I know who loves their 12" MacBook and how they find the keyboard just fine... and then he seriously told me that some incredibly large percentage of the time his O key doesn't work and I'm just sitting there totally dumbfounded wondering how he could even use such a machine.
- tomcam 9y ago
  Preach it, brother. I bitterly regret my MacBook purchase for exactly the same reasons
csomar 9y ago
> I have a MacBook Pro, and the keys no longer work reliably. I also barely get 2 hours of battery life. How old is your Macbook Pro? Mine is 4 years and I still get 7-8 hours of charge even though I have been using the Battery almost everyday.
- cjsuk 9y ago
  Same here. 2013 15” MBP here. I get 5 hours easily on High Sierra and the thing has been hammered since it was new.
  - csomar 9y ago
    The battery life has actually improved since the Sierra update.
- FabHK 9y ago
  There's a good chance that GP has the 2016 MBP (that introduced Touchbar). I have the "cheap" (hahahaahaha) version without Touchbar, and have had intermittent problems with the left shift key and the cursor down key (sticky, or unresponsive unless pressed very firmly) - quite annoying. Oh, and the battery life, if you actually use your CPUs, is rather short.
  - csomar 9y ago
    That's quite disappointing.
danso 9y ago
This High Sierra bug is bizarre and disturbing. But Apple would have to commit an act of outright betrayal (such as lying about FaceID off-device storage) before I would consider going back to Android. Not because I think there is concerted malice by the Android overseers (partly because that kind of control doesn't really exist as it does with Apple), but because the potential for negligent design to cause damage seems so much greater. And from the perspective of a long-time iOS user, it seems that Samsung has a potentially strong hold on the Android ecosystem. And I trust their security and design chops far less than I do Apple's. That said, I could see myself sharing your same disillusionment if I have to upgrade from my 4.5 year old Macbook Pro. I don't think I've ever had a laptop for more than 3 years, and I was happy to have an even shorter cycle when it came to Apple computers. I helped a good friend purchase a new MBP, and the most I can say is that I'm happier that she's on the MBP than on the old Dell laptop that she reverted from Windows 7/10 to XP. But I'm willing to wait another year or 2 for a improved model.
- FabHK 9y ago
  Good point. While there are some disappointing developments in macOS/iOS land (even hardware), I still much prefer that ecosystem to the Windows/Google/Android datenkraken.
Jerry2 9y ago
>They removed the jack, and all ports from laptops. What are you on about? Audio jack is there. >They placed the charger for their wireless mouse under the mouse so you can't use it while charging And? Mouse lasts MONTHS on a single charge. It notifies you 12 hours ahead that it needs charging. A 5 min charge can last you an hour. I think this is a lot better than having a hole on the side of your mouse at all times. This is an issue only to those who've never used it. >and the list goes on and on--particularly with software. Please list it. I'm dying to know more! >It's just not premium stuff anymore. Silly opinion. >I've already switched to Android, and I am not buying another computer from them. We're talking about Macs. What does Android have to do with it? You're mixing up your hate memes. PS: You clearly never even owned a Macbook Pro. You're probably getting your "facts" from bullshit 4chan memes.
- bdamm 9y ago
  The mouse thing really irks me. The moment the mouse needs charging is the moment is stop working. So why am I expected to then not use the product while it charges? A product that used to have a wire connected to it and is sitting right next to the computer? How is having a hole in the bottom at better than having a hole on the side?
  - firethief 9y ago
    I don't think it's about the hole. Someone decided: - users would have a better experience if the mouse was wireless - if left to their own devices, users will tend to leave the mouse plugged in and use it as a wired mouse so they solved that contradiction by taking away the option of missing out on wirelessness.
    - wlesieutre 9y ago
      Can confirm I have a hybrid wired/wireless mouse (Logitech G700s) and I generally just leave it plugged in. Which works fine, so I'm glad Logitech decided not to be assholes about it.
      - 9y ago
kobeya 9y ago
Certainly we've seen a lot more quality problems recently than we are used to seeing from Apple, even in first releases of a new system. This is bad for users and bad for the brand. However I wouldn't say all of these are terrible faults any different from what they've done before. As a vertically integrated, full-ecosystem brand Apple has consistently chosen to design towards where they feel the industry ought to be, not where it is incrementally advancing towards. They did this with thunderbolt vs firewire, and they are doing it now with bluetooth 5 vs headphone jacks. With Airbuds you can have a single earpiece (well, two) that provides high quality two-way audio for your macbook while working, your phone while driving, and your watch while running, and eventually your HomePod while walking around the house, and their handoff technology automatically switches between them. THAT is what they were designing towards, but they just didn't tell us that when they introduced the iPhone 7. Is this good or bad? It depends. It is a lack of personal choice and a concession of liberty. Ted Kaczynski* would be appalled at everything Apple represents, for reasons that as a libertarian I can understand. However Apple's "abuse" of its monopolist position has allowed the creation of a highly integrated and seamless technology ecosystem that genuinely makes my life better, at some cost to my pocketbook, and could not have existed in a free market. And since no one is forced to buy Apple.. is that still a bad thing? It's definitely not black and white. * Not someone I usually bring into conversations, but I saw Manhunt recently and it was rather thought provoking. Highly recommend watching, regardless of whether you typically enjoy police procedurals.
- freedomben 9y ago
  Haha you won me over by bringing in Ted Kaczynski :-)
Steeeve 9y ago
I also decided against another macbook. Apple quite obviously sees the notebook market as secondary. I don't blame them. i-device sales far outpace notebook sales. But not everybody feels that way. I can get a pretty damn impressive linux box for the same cost.
- freedomben 9y ago
  It's become a bit of a joke that every year is "the year of the linux desktop," but seriously I've been amazed at how awesome machine I can get with linux for half the price of a macbook. Linux UX has come a long way. Both Gnome and KDE these days have a pretty complete and nice experience.
  - jsz0 9y ago
    Gnome and KDE both still make me want to puke up blood but I would agree there will come a point in the not too distant future where Apple's going to have to look at cutting Mac prices. I mostly buy second hand these days just because I don't want to spend $2k+ when a $1k used machine is good enough for my needs.
    - lederhosen 9y ago
      I would pay _more_ for a Linux laptop than a Mac if I _had_ to. It is a matter of taste and also what you are used to. I have the choice not to use KDE and Gnome and choose xmonad instead. Macs are horrible for many of those that are not used to them.
  - nkkollaw 9y ago
    Every time I go back to desktop Linux, my experience is a nightmare. It usually includes updates (or myself by mistake? not sure) making my system so broken that I have to reinstall and start again from scratch. This year I thought I'd try with the Pro after the MacBook Air wasn't upgraded with retina, but if I have to spend almost EUR 2,000 and have faulty hardware and a broken OS that shows my password in clear text, might as well spend 1/3 to get a just-as-good laptop with elementary OS on it.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
hellofunk 9y ago
Well, my MBP is 10 months old, the 2016 model (not the touch bar model) and I get 15 hours battery still, after daily rigorous development use since buying it. Just as I don't think there is such a thing as a perfect place to live, a perfect person to spend your life with, a perfect food to eat every day of your life, I also don't think the perfect computer company exists, the perfect laptop exists... But when I weigh all the conveniences and quality of my MBP with other non-Apple machines I've owned, it really is a no-brainer for me.
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  Mine is the 2016 13". I guess the 15" has a bigger battery.
  - hellofunk 9y ago
    Mine is 15". It does depend of course what you do on the machine. I'm typically just running emacs all day, which is lightweight.
    - nkkollaw 9y ago
      Yes, of course and I am a web dev and have lots of windows open, but this is definitely a lot worse than anything I've used before. I personally think that it's the screen. Not sure. As we're speaking, Finder is taking up 12GB of memory as well as lots of CPU: https://imgur.com/a/RwSvI https://imgur.com/a/RwSvI (I just installed High Sierra 2 days ago, though).
Alex3917 9y ago
> High Sierra keeps restarting by itself. Reset the SMC. It was doing this multiple times per day for me also, but it hasn't been an issue since I did this a couple days ago.
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  Sure, but I thought these guys were making fun of Windows for having to reinstall every couple of years. I have to reset the SMC or the computer will restart by itself while I'm in the middle of programming..? This is a EUR2000 laptop we're talking about, not a Game Boy.
  - eppsilon 9y ago
    Is a SMC reset (takes a couple of minutes, max) really equivalent to a complete reinstall of the OS?
nogridbag 9y ago
Honestly similar arguments can be made for Windows and Android. I have the premium devices for both (Surface Book and Google Pixel) and I still have daily annoyances. On Windows 10, you will lose audio if the computer goes to sleep while connected to a TV via HDMI - requiring a restart. It was reported over a year ago and a similar issue exists with external monitors. Windows Hello recognizes me but occasionally does not log me in and gives me no indication why. Is it a bug or a security feature? It's been over a year without a fix. If I adjust the angle of my Surface Book display, the keyboard will not work for a few seconds due to a common hardware issue. It wouldn't bother me except the Surface Book is extremely top heavy and simply typing with the keyboard on your lap can make the display wobble causing the keyboard to cut out every few seconds. The Surface Book power cable from the outlet to the brick is so short the brick cannot reach the floor from a common outlet height. The Surface Pro 4 had minor light bleed issues. Microsoft attempted to fix it, but the new Surface Pro 2017 has even worse light bleed issues (except for the devices given to tech bloggers). On Android: Google removed the headphone jack from the Pixel 2. If I ask Google to Remind Me of X when I get Home, it often reminds me days later (even though I use Google maps every day for navigation). If I use Ok Google to dial my wife while I'm driving, it asks "Mobile or Skype". If it doesn't hear me properly, which happens 25% of the time, it repeats the question. But if I answer, "Mobile" it searches Google Maps for all Mobile gas stations :)
teekert 9y ago
You forgot to mention that unlike my 2011 MBP you can't open the thing up anymore whereas I'm still free to put 16 GB of Ram and an SSD into a 6 year old machine and make it fly again.

jordache 9y ago

which mbp model?

nkkollaw 9y ago
2016. The keys are so shallow that after normal use (no crumbs or anything like that) they start having problems. As for battery life, they had to make it 4mm thinner just for the sake of it, and the screen sucks all the battery. I wish it was thicker but I could actually use it without keeping plugging it in.
- artursapek 9y ago
  Oh, the emoji bar laptop? Yeah. I tried one of those when they showed up in the stores and the keyboard is pathetic. Ended up switching to a Thinkpad (should have done it years ago).
  - nkkollaw 9y ago
    Yes, I have the version without the touchbar, though. The keyboard is the best I've ever used in terms of typing, but it only lasted a few months, which is not what you'd expect for a premium laptop.
- jordache 9y ago
  My 2016MBP just crashed from sleep wake twice within 1 hr.. Crash meaning I need to hold down the power button to force a hard reset. Apple you POS! THe only thing that keeps your MBP some what usasble is the "so far" stellar state restore post crash.

gowld 9y ago

Android and Microsoft have their own sets of equivalent problems. Software and hardware change too quickly now, no one has time to build quality

nine_k 9y ago
It also had choice.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
nkkollaw 9y ago
Sure, but at least they don't charge premium. I paid 275 for my Moto G5, and it's about 10 times better (IMO) than the last iPhone I owned, which cost 3 times as much.
- jsight 9y ago
  The Moto devices feel like a well kept secret in the Android community. They are all priced well and the quality is generally quite good. Its too bad that the cameras tend to be subpar, though.
  - cjsuk 9y ago
    I’ve been abandoned on updates by Motorola or whoever it is owned by on the current whim within a year of buying my G2 and G3 handsets. I don’t feel I can trust them or Google with my cash. Not only that Google makes it difficult to consider your privacy because at every turn there’s a trap. And god forbid one goes wrong because the repair and aftercare service at least in the U.K. is dire. I was told a handset was water damaged after it failed. Turns out it’s shipped to a 3rd party repairer who blames it on you if they can’t fix it. I had to hit moneyclaim (small claims court) to get it back. Ergo I bought a 6s and have had zero problems with it. It just works.
    - lederhosen 9y ago

asdfasdfasd333 9y ago

lol

nkkollaw 9y ago
> almost as much effort as you put into picking your username.

cjsuk 9y ago

Annoyingly even with those problems which I agree with I find it’s the least shit thing. Note that I didn’t say the best because nothing has earned that title. This week I have lost a whole day of my life to printer problems on windows 10. Apple stuff in the house just prints!

lederhosen 9y ago
At work PCs just work. Macs can not print and a colleague of mine is a forced email printer for the UX people that _think_ they must use hardware they do not know how to use. All the time they complain about PC and how wonderful the macs are, but they can not even attach the computer to an external screen or projector. So experiences do differ...

aphextron 9y ago

Their software quality really has become atrocious. Just try recovering your iCloud password from the web. It takes (literally) weeks to do so.

jamisteven 9y ago
This is a blatant lie.
- aphextron 9y ago
  >This is a blatant lie. No, it's not. Try recovering your iCloud password from the web right now. I couldn't believe it either. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204921 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204921 "For your security, recovery includes a waiting period that may be several days or longer depending on the information you can provide to verify your identity. Apple Support cannot help you shorten this time. "
  - debaserab2 9y ago
    If you want to reset your password, it's pretty much standard operating procedure: https://support.apple.com/en-us/ht201487 https://support.apple.com/en-us/ht201487 Not sure where you got that quote from - it's not in the link you pasted.
    - computerex 9y ago
      https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204921 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204921 Try this link. > Account recovery is an automated process designed to get you back into your Apple ID account* as quickly as possible and deny access to unauthorized users. For your security, recovery might take several days or longer, depending on the verification information that you can provide.
      - debaserab2 9y ago
        It's still pretty disingenuous to suggest the process will usually take several days just for a "password reset". This is a pretty specific scenario where you've lost access to a device associated with your Apple ID, you're using two factor auth, and you've forgotten what your apple ID is. This isn't a password reset workflow at all.

giancarlostoro 9y ago

> They placed the charger for their wireless mouse under the mouse so you can't use it while charging, and the list goes on and on--particularly with software. Ouch, who let the intern design that one?... Kidding, but really did they not QA test this and how did nobody at QA not say this was a terrible idea? I'll stick to my wireless trackball..

justinjlynn 9y ago
QA? QA is for companies that make mistakes. /s
humblebee 9y ago
It's pretty terrible UX, but I can see how they came to the idea. If the mouse lasts all day, then surely the user will just charge it when they are done. However, this is a hard thing to train people to do. For people with a desk that step away at the end of the day, such as leaving the office) it is a bit easier to build the habit. However, if you are a user who uses the computer on and off all day, or doesn't have a permanent desk, it might be hard to remember to flip the mouse over and plug it in at the end of the night. Particularly if it's in your backpack. I don't personally use a mouse with a laptop, but I know plenty of people who do. The mouse also just looks weird when flipped over to charge, and you can't really try to even charge it while it's in a backpack if you wanted to, due to the 90deg angle it makes when plugged in.
- giancarlostoro 9y ago
  Friend told me his wife leaves it charging when she's done using it at night. But I agree it's kind of terrible UX. On the other hand... The Marathon Mouse I bought years ago only needed new batteries 3 years after me having owned / used it daily, and it came with it's own batteries.
- ribosometronome 9y ago
  The charge lasts months.
themacguffinman 9y ago

hjaltij 9y ago

All the laptops ship with a headphone jack so not sure what you are talking about.

jklein11 9y ago
Likely they were talking about the iPhone 7, which does not come with a laptop jack.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- mcintyre1994 9y ago
  And the laptops only come with USB-C ports, and I'm yet to meet anybody who owns anything which can be plugged into one of those without a dongle (I suppose excluding their Mac charger :)).
  - epmaybe 9y ago
    I do wish they kept an SD card reader, I use that quite often and now have to use an adapter.
    - Chaebixi 9y ago
      Dongles are the future.
  - chipotle_coyote 9y ago
    I have one of the 2016 MBPs and while I bought a USB-A to USB-C dongle, I almost never use it. I have the USB-C to USB-C cable that came with it for power, and also (gasp) bought a couple new cables: one USB-C to Lightning, and one USB-C to Micro-USB. I get that people are upset that Apple's gone full bore on USB-C "early," but they did that with USB, period. When the first iMac came out in 1998, it was the first computer to have only USB ports--and pretty much nobody was making USB peripherals back then. (And one of the two USB ports on the iMac was guaranteed to be taken up by your keyboard/mouse, so as USB took off, Apple was also early to the "not having enough ports" game. Heyo!) There are legitimate things to complain about with the current MBP models; I don't like the keyboard, either, although I certainly don't have any problem with battery life. (My understanding is that it varies much more sharply than previous models depending on the system load.) I think only 2 USB-C ports on the low-end 13" model (the one I have) is too few. I think all of the laptops should probably have SD slots (c'mon, Jony, SD cards are thin, okay?). And at least so far, the Touch Bar hasn't justified itself. But when it comes to going all-in on USB-C, I'm not one of the ones who thinks that's a mistake on Apple's part. If anything, I think it's a mistake not to swap the Lightning port on the iPad Pro for a USB-C port.

saurik 9y ago

> I have a MacBook Pro, and the keys no longer work reliably. I have the 12" MacBook and the keyboard is absolutely miserable. I seriously got warned by the Apple Store when I bought it that if I got any dust on the keyboard at all that the keys would get stuck, which is totally unrealistic. It turned out to be true, which has meant I mostly just don't use a laptop anymore, as the keyboard is just so unpleasant. I have had it on my todo list to move all of my data back to my now-repaired 11" MacBook Air (which had a totally reasonable keyboard), but that entire task is just so depressing. A few days ago I was talking to someone I know who loves their 12" MacBook and how they find the keyboard just fine... and then he seriously told me that some incredibly large percentage of the time his O key doesn't work and I'm just sitting there totally dumbfounded wondering how he could even use such a machine.

tomcam 9y ago
Preach it, brother. I bitterly regret my MacBook purchase for exactly the same reasons

csomar 9y ago

> I have a MacBook Pro, and the keys no longer work reliably. I also barely get 2 hours of battery life. How old is your Macbook Pro? Mine is 4 years and I still get 7-8 hours of charge even though I have been using the Battery almost everyday.

cjsuk 9y ago
Same here. 2013 15” MBP here. I get 5 hours easily on High Sierra and the thing has been hammered since it was new.
- csomar 9y ago
  The battery life has actually improved since the Sierra update.
FabHK 9y ago
There's a good chance that GP has the 2016 MBP (that introduced Touchbar). I have the "cheap" (hahahaahaha) version without Touchbar, and have had intermittent problems with the left shift key and the cursor down key (sticky, or unresponsive unless pressed very firmly) - quite annoying. Oh, and the battery life, if you actually use your CPUs, is rather short.
- csomar 9y ago
  That's quite disappointing.

danso 9y ago

This High Sierra bug is bizarre and disturbing. But Apple would have to commit an act of outright betrayal (such as lying about FaceID off-device storage) before I would consider going back to Android. Not because I think there is concerted malice by the Android overseers (partly because that kind of control doesn't really exist as it does with Apple), but because the potential for negligent design to cause damage seems so much greater. And from the perspective of a long-time iOS user, it seems that Samsung has a potentially strong hold on the Android ecosystem. And I trust their security and design chops far less than I do Apple's. That said, I could see myself sharing your same disillusionment if I have to upgrade from my 4.5 year old Macbook Pro. I don't think I've ever had a laptop for more than 3 years, and I was happy to have an even shorter cycle when it came to Apple computers. I helped a good friend purchase a new MBP, and the most I can say is that I'm happier that she's on the MBP than on the old Dell laptop that she reverted from Windows 7/10 to XP. But I'm willing to wait another year or 2 for a improved model.

FabHK 9y ago
Good point. While there are some disappointing developments in macOS/iOS land (even hardware), I still much prefer that ecosystem to the Windows/Google/Android datenkraken.

Jerry2 9y ago

>They removed the jack, and all ports from laptops. What are you on about? Audio jack is there. >They placed the charger for their wireless mouse under the mouse so you can't use it while charging And? Mouse lasts MONTHS on a single charge. It notifies you 12 hours ahead that it needs charging. A 5 min charge can last you an hour. I think this is a lot better than having a hole on the side of your mouse at all times. This is an issue only to those who've never used it. >and the list goes on and on--particularly with software. Please list it. I'm dying to know more! >It's just not premium stuff anymore. Silly opinion. >I've already switched to Android, and I am not buying another computer from them. We're talking about Macs. What does Android have to do with it? You're mixing up your hate memes. PS: You clearly never even owned a Macbook Pro. You're probably getting your "facts" from bullshit 4chan memes.

bdamm 9y ago
The mouse thing really irks me. The moment the mouse needs charging is the moment is stop working. So why am I expected to then not use the product while it charges? A product that used to have a wire connected to it and is sitting right next to the computer? How is having a hole in the bottom at better than having a hole on the side?
- firethief 9y ago
  I don't think it's about the hole. Someone decided: - users would have a better experience if the mouse was wireless - if left to their own devices, users will tend to leave the mouse plugged in and use it as a wired mouse so they solved that contradiction by taking away the option of missing out on wirelessness.
  - wlesieutre 9y ago
    Can confirm I have a hybrid wired/wireless mouse (Logitech G700s) and I generally just leave it plugged in. Which works fine, so I'm glad Logitech decided not to be assholes about it.
    - 9y ago

kobeya 9y ago

Certainly we've seen a lot more quality problems recently than we are used to seeing from Apple, even in first releases of a new system. This is bad for users and bad for the brand. However I wouldn't say all of these are terrible faults any different from what they've done before. As a vertically integrated, full-ecosystem brand Apple has consistently chosen to design towards where they feel the industry ought to be, not where it is incrementally advancing towards. They did this with thunderbolt vs firewire, and they are doing it now with bluetooth 5 vs headphone jacks. With Airbuds you can have a single earpiece (well, two) that provides high quality two-way audio for your macbook while working, your phone while driving, and your watch while running, and eventually your HomePod while walking around the house, and their handoff technology automatically switches between them. THAT is what they were designing towards, but they just didn't tell us that when they introduced the iPhone 7. Is this good or bad? It depends. It is a lack of personal choice and a concession of liberty. Ted Kaczynski* would be appalled at everything Apple represents, for reasons that as a libertarian I can understand. However Apple's "abuse" of its monopolist position has allowed the creation of a highly integrated and seamless technology ecosystem that genuinely makes my life better, at some cost to my pocketbook, and could not have existed in a free market. And since no one is forced to buy Apple.. is that still a bad thing? It's definitely not black and white. * Not someone I usually bring into conversations, but I saw Manhunt recently and it was rather thought provoking. Highly recommend watching, regardless of whether you typically enjoy police procedurals.

freedomben 9y ago
Haha you won me over by bringing in Ted Kaczynski :-)

Steeeve 9y ago

I also decided against another macbook. Apple quite obviously sees the notebook market as secondary. I don't blame them. i-device sales far outpace notebook sales. But not everybody feels that way. I can get a pretty damn impressive linux box for the same cost.

freedomben 9y ago
It's become a bit of a joke that every year is "the year of the linux desktop," but seriously I've been amazed at how awesome machine I can get with linux for half the price of a macbook. Linux UX has come a long way. Both Gnome and KDE these days have a pretty complete and nice experience.
- jsz0 9y ago
  Gnome and KDE both still make me want to puke up blood but I would agree there will come a point in the not too distant future where Apple's going to have to look at cutting Mac prices. I mostly buy second hand these days just because I don't want to spend $2k+ when a $1k used machine is good enough for my needs.
  - lederhosen 9y ago
    I would pay _more_ for a Linux laptop than a Mac if I _had_ to. It is a matter of taste and also what you are used to. I have the choice not to use KDE and Gnome and choose xmonad instead. Macs are horrible for many of those that are not used to them.
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  Every time I go back to desktop Linux, my experience is a nightmare. It usually includes updates (or myself by mistake? not sure) making my system so broken that I have to reinstall and start again from scratch. This year I thought I'd try with the Pro after the MacBook Air wasn't upgraded with retina, but if I have to spend almost EUR 2,000 and have faulty hardware and a broken OS that shows my password in clear text, might as well spend 1/3 to get a just-as-good laptop with elementary OS on it.

deleted 9y ago

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hellofunk 9y ago

Well, my MBP is 10 months old, the 2016 model (not the touch bar model) and I get 15 hours battery still, after daily rigorous development use since buying it. Just as I don't think there is such a thing as a perfect place to live, a perfect person to spend your life with, a perfect food to eat every day of your life, I also don't think the perfect computer company exists, the perfect laptop exists... But when I weigh all the conveniences and quality of my MBP with other non-Apple machines I've owned, it really is a no-brainer for me.

nkkollaw 9y ago
Mine is the 2016 13". I guess the 15" has a bigger battery.
- hellofunk 9y ago
  Mine is 15". It does depend of course what you do on the machine. I'm typically just running emacs all day, which is lightweight.
  - nkkollaw 9y ago
    Yes, of course and I am a web dev and have lots of windows open, but this is definitely a lot worse than anything I've used before. I personally think that it's the screen. Not sure. As we're speaking, Finder is taking up 12GB of memory as well as lots of CPU: https://imgur.com/a/RwSvI https://imgur.com/a/RwSvI (I just installed High Sierra 2 days ago, though).

Alex3917 9y ago

> High Sierra keeps restarting by itself. Reset the SMC. It was doing this multiple times per day for me also, but it hasn't been an issue since I did this a couple days ago.

nkkollaw 9y ago
Sure, but I thought these guys were making fun of Windows for having to reinstall every couple of years. I have to reset the SMC or the computer will restart by itself while I'm in the middle of programming..? This is a EUR2000 laptop we're talking about, not a Game Boy.
- eppsilon 9y ago
  Is a SMC reset (takes a couple of minutes, max) really equivalent to a complete reinstall of the OS?

nogridbag 9y ago

Honestly similar arguments can be made for Windows and Android. I have the premium devices for both (Surface Book and Google Pixel) and I still have daily annoyances. On Windows 10, you will lose audio if the computer goes to sleep while connected to a TV via HDMI - requiring a restart. It was reported over a year ago and a similar issue exists with external monitors. Windows Hello recognizes me but occasionally does not log me in and gives me no indication why. Is it a bug or a security feature? It's been over a year without a fix. If I adjust the angle of my Surface Book display, the keyboard will not work for a few seconds due to a common hardware issue. It wouldn't bother me except the Surface Book is extremely top heavy and simply typing with the keyboard on your lap can make the display wobble causing the keyboard to cut out every few seconds. The Surface Book power cable from the outlet to the brick is so short the brick cannot reach the floor from a common outlet height. The Surface Pro 4 had minor light bleed issues. Microsoft attempted to fix it, but the new Surface Pro 2017 has even worse light bleed issues (except for the devices given to tech bloggers). On Android: Google removed the headphone jack from the Pixel 2. If I ask Google to Remind Me of X when I get Home, it often reminds me days later (even though I use Google maps every day for navigation). If I use Ok Google to dial my wife while I'm driving, it asks "Mobile or Skype". If it doesn't hear me properly, which happens 25% of the time, it repeats the question. But if I answer, "Mobile" it searches Google Maps for all Mobile gas stations :)

teekert 9y ago

You forgot to mention that unlike my 2011 MBP you can't open the thing up anymore whereas I'm still free to put 16 GB of Ram and an SSD into a 6 year old machine and make it fly again.