6 ms·

I feel like Microsoft SQL server is the easiest to use and has the best tooling. I would say that MySQL and Postgres are generally ok to use I slightly perfer

I feel like Microsoft SQL server is the easiest to use and has the best tooling. I would say that MySQL and Postgres are generally ok to use I slightly perfer MySQL tooling. Oracle seems to be the most different one but once I got use to it it was ok.

enraged_camel 9y ago
>>I feel like Microsoft SQL server is the easiest to use and has the best tooling. Agreed. SQL Server Management Studio is fantastic and is one of the main reasons I enjoy working with MSSQL. Unfortunately Postgres severely lacks in the tooling department. PgAdmin 3 used to be good, but PgAdmin 4 is simply horrendous. It makes me dread interacting with Postgres.
- cookiecaper 9y ago
  pgAdmin 3 still exists and afaik remains compatible with newer Postgres releases. You can still use it. Postage, a tool developed by a family of software devs, was gaining popularity but recently became unmaintained without explanation (afaik). [0] I started using IntelliJ DataGrip on a trial basis and it's good, but I probably won't pay for it. Sick of paying monthly subscription fee for every little tool I need from JetBrains, especially when I put down a project and don't need that tool for another x months. Used DBeaver briefly but it's so many clicks just to set up a primary key that I shelved it for now. Will probably come back to it when DataGrip trial is over. Not a conventional management tool but pgModeler [1] is a cool project IMO. Open-source, but they put a limit on the Windows binaries they distribute to try to get people to fund development. Can build from source yourself, install on Linux, or probably find free third-party builds elsewhere. I think that most devs are just sticking with pgadmin3. [0] https://github.com/workflowproducts/postage https://github.com/workflowproducts/postage [1] https://pgmodeler.com.br/ https://pgmodeler.com.br/
  - kuschku 9y ago
    You can just buy jetbrains' tools, you don't get updates, but you can always use them. (Specifically, if you subscribe even once you get the latest version, and can use it forever, even if you unsubscribe)
  - reitanqild 9y ago
    Sad to see postage becoming unmaintained shortly after the first time I heard about it. That said it seems there is little to gain except nice words for smaller open source efforts.
- troyk 9y ago
  PostreSQL has great tooling, maybe not the GUI-UX experience you are familiar with MSSQL on Windows. psql is great for inspecting schema and running ad-hoc queuries. SQL scripts can also be piped through it for cron-sql jobs etc. pg_dump + psql + ssh to easily copy databases between hosts pg_bench for benchmarking. Lots more: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/reference-client.html https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/reference-cli...
  - X86BSD 9y ago
    Zfs snapshots and send/recv are even easier for making backups or copying databases.
    - majewsky 9y ago
      A filesystem snapshot is only reliable if you stop the database to do it, or if there is some sort of cooperation between the database and the tool that triggers the FS snapshot creation.
      - jeltz 9y ago
        File system and LVM snapshots are atomic, so if you cannot get a working database from that your database won't survive a power failure either. You can also do a file system backup of PostgreSQL without atomic snapshots but then you will need to inform PostgreSQL of the backup and then copy files in the right order. The pg_basebackup tool and various third party tools handle this for you.
- irrational 9y ago
  I use DataGrip if I want to use a GUI, but the vast majority of time its just so simple to work from the command line.
- SomeHacker44 9y ago
  SSMS may well be fantastic, but as the vast majority of our dev team uses Macs, we have been converting our SS databases whenever possible to PostgreSQL over the years and have found only performance benefits, in addition to the (obvious) cost benefits.
  - bdcravens 9y ago
    We are (much slower than I'd like lol) going through the same migration. We've been using DataGrip for some time for both. I used to run Navicat and occasionally spin up a Windows VM for SSMS, but since moving to DataGrip, found that it does everything I need for both database engines.
- uptownJimmy 9y ago
  SSMS is not fantastic, IMO. JetBrains' DataGrip is significantly better, and works with all the extant SQL implementations. We can definitely debate the SQL implementations themselves, but DataGrip makes tooling a non-issue.
  - gnud 9y ago
    I'm sure DataGrip is better for writing queries in. I really doubt it's better for managing SQL Agent jobs, doing backup/restore, or for managing users. Does DataGrip let you do Kerberos authentication?
    - kuschku 9y ago
      > Does DataGrip let you do Kerberos authentication? It allows you to manually specify every authentication parameter if you wish to, but the simple login page only supports password or client-cert auth.
  - bdcravens 9y ago
    I've been using DataGrip with both SQL Server and Postgresql for over a year, and am very happy with it.
- matrix 9y ago
  I have yet to find anything quite as nice as SSMS for Postgres, but Navicat for PostgreSQL is pretty good. It's not free, but its not expensive and has features I feel are worth paying for such as being able to diff schemas or data across DBs on different servers.
slysf 9y ago
I'm sorry but I just can't take MSSQL Server seriously when it cannot export valid CSV. It does not escape commas for CSV or tabs for TSV, and has no option to. If they had their own flat file export that could be re-imported I could forgive it because I could write my own library for that format, but there simply is no way to cleanly export data from MSSQL. I had to write a SQL query that was ~2000 lines of 80 columns in order to export a database to CSV and properly escape each field manually, and it took FOREVER.
- hunterjrj 9y ago
  Not sure if you're trolling here but... have you tried bcp? "The bulk copy program utility (bcp) bulk copies data between an instance of Microsoft SQL Server and a data file in a user-specified format. The bcp utility can be used to import large numbers of new rows into SQL Server tables or to export data out of tables into data files." https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/tools/bcp-utility https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/tools/bcp-utility
  - slysf 9y ago
    Thank you, yes I did try it, bcp does not escape commas or newlines in a field.
- dhd415 9y ago
  A missing small feature here or there is kind of a lame reason to not take a large and well-respected product seriously. That said, bcp and PowerShell (piping the output of Invoke-Sqlcmd through Export-CSV) are among the more common ways that can be done with SQL Server.
  - slysf 9y ago
    If they can't get a fundamentally simple feature right, why would I give them the benefit of the doubt that other features are thought out? bcp does _not_ escape commas or newlines in a field, you have to write sql to replace() those characters on select.
  - 9y ago

enraged_camel 9y ago

>>I feel like Microsoft SQL server is the easiest to use and has the best tooling. Agreed. SQL Server Management Studio is fantastic and is one of the main reasons I enjoy working with MSSQL. Unfortunately Postgres severely lacks in the tooling department. PgAdmin 3 used to be good, but PgAdmin 4 is simply horrendous. It makes me dread interacting with Postgres.

cookiecaper 9y ago
pgAdmin 3 still exists and afaik remains compatible with newer Postgres releases. You can still use it. Postage, a tool developed by a family of software devs, was gaining popularity but recently became unmaintained without explanation (afaik). [0] I started using IntelliJ DataGrip on a trial basis and it's good, but I probably won't pay for it. Sick of paying monthly subscription fee for every little tool I need from JetBrains, especially when I put down a project and don't need that tool for another x months. Used DBeaver briefly but it's so many clicks just to set up a primary key that I shelved it for now. Will probably come back to it when DataGrip trial is over. Not a conventional management tool but pgModeler [1] is a cool project IMO. Open-source, but they put a limit on the Windows binaries they distribute to try to get people to fund development. Can build from source yourself, install on Linux, or probably find free third-party builds elsewhere. I think that most devs are just sticking with pgadmin3. [0] https://github.com/workflowproducts/postage https://github.com/workflowproducts/postage [1] https://pgmodeler.com.br/ https://pgmodeler.com.br/
- kuschku 9y ago
  You can just buy jetbrains' tools, you don't get updates, but you can always use them. (Specifically, if you subscribe even once you get the latest version, and can use it forever, even if you unsubscribe)
- reitanqild 9y ago
  Sad to see postage becoming unmaintained shortly after the first time I heard about it. That said it seems there is little to gain except nice words for smaller open source efforts.
troyk 9y ago
PostreSQL has great tooling, maybe not the GUI-UX experience you are familiar with MSSQL on Windows. psql is great for inspecting schema and running ad-hoc queuries. SQL scripts can also be piped through it for cron-sql jobs etc. pg_dump + psql + ssh to easily copy databases between hosts pg_bench for benchmarking. Lots more: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/reference-client.html https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/reference-cli...
- X86BSD 9y ago
  Zfs snapshots and send/recv are even easier for making backups or copying databases.
  - majewsky 9y ago
    A filesystem snapshot is only reliable if you stop the database to do it, or if there is some sort of cooperation between the database and the tool that triggers the FS snapshot creation.
    - jeltz 9y ago
      File system and LVM snapshots are atomic, so if you cannot get a working database from that your database won't survive a power failure either. You can also do a file system backup of PostgreSQL without atomic snapshots but then you will need to inform PostgreSQL of the backup and then copy files in the right order. The pg_basebackup tool and various third party tools handle this for you.
irrational 9y ago
I use DataGrip if I want to use a GUI, but the vast majority of time its just so simple to work from the command line.
SomeHacker44 9y ago
SSMS may well be fantastic, but as the vast majority of our dev team uses Macs, we have been converting our SS databases whenever possible to PostgreSQL over the years and have found only performance benefits, in addition to the (obvious) cost benefits.
- bdcravens 9y ago
  We are (much slower than I'd like lol) going through the same migration. We've been using DataGrip for some time for both. I used to run Navicat and occasionally spin up a Windows VM for SSMS, but since moving to DataGrip, found that it does everything I need for both database engines.
uptownJimmy 9y ago
SSMS is not fantastic, IMO. JetBrains' DataGrip is significantly better, and works with all the extant SQL implementations. We can definitely debate the SQL implementations themselves, but DataGrip makes tooling a non-issue.
- gnud 9y ago
  I'm sure DataGrip is better for writing queries in. I really doubt it's better for managing SQL Agent jobs, doing backup/restore, or for managing users. Does DataGrip let you do Kerberos authentication?
  - kuschku 9y ago
    > Does DataGrip let you do Kerberos authentication? It allows you to manually specify every authentication parameter if you wish to, but the simple login page only supports password or client-cert auth.
- bdcravens 9y ago
  I've been using DataGrip with both SQL Server and Postgresql for over a year, and am very happy with it.
matrix 9y ago
I have yet to find anything quite as nice as SSMS for Postgres, but Navicat for PostgreSQL is pretty good. It's not free, but its not expensive and has features I feel are worth paying for such as being able to diff schemas or data across DBs on different servers.

slysf 9y ago

I'm sorry but I just can't take MSSQL Server seriously when it cannot export valid CSV. It does not escape commas for CSV or tabs for TSV, and has no option to. If they had their own flat file export that could be re-imported I could forgive it because I could write my own library for that format, but there simply is no way to cleanly export data from MSSQL. I had to write a SQL query that was ~2000 lines of 80 columns in order to export a database to CSV and properly escape each field manually, and it took FOREVER.

hunterjrj 9y ago
Not sure if you're trolling here but... have you tried bcp? "The bulk copy program utility (bcp) bulk copies data between an instance of Microsoft SQL Server and a data file in a user-specified format. The bcp utility can be used to import large numbers of new rows into SQL Server tables or to export data out of tables into data files." https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/tools/bcp-utility https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/tools/bcp-utility
- slysf 9y ago
  Thank you, yes I did try it, bcp does not escape commas or newlines in a field.
dhd415 9y ago
A missing small feature here or there is kind of a lame reason to not take a large and well-respected product seriously. That said, bcp and PowerShell (piping the output of Invoke-Sqlcmd through Export-CSV) are among the more common ways that can be done with SQL Server.
- slysf 9y ago
  If they can't get a fundamentally simple feature right, why would I give them the benefit of the doubt that other features are thought out? bcp does _not_ escape commas or newlines in a field, you have to write sql to replace() those characters on select.
- 9y ago